Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
07-10-2011, 08:22 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
It's a great ancillary business. Tell me again how much those 9 dedicated freighters lost us in 2008 before the shutdown?
Point is, FedEx and UPS have created a duopoly in their overnight package delivery business. They ran ABX, DHL, and the USPS into insignficant market share. They are both extremely profitable and are paying some of the highest wage rates in the US piloting business. Their main deck freighter counterparts (Atlas, Kalitta, et. al.) pay less than us on like aircraft. APC shows Atlas at $176 per hour for a 747. Astar and ABX only have a few pilots left after massive furloughs.
Point is, FedEx and UPS have created a duopoly in their overnight package delivery business. They ran ABX, DHL, and the USPS into insignficant market share. They are both extremely profitable and are paying some of the highest wage rates in the US piloting business. Their main deck freighter counterparts (Atlas, Kalitta, et. al.) pay less than us on like aircraft. APC shows Atlas at $176 per hour for a 747. Astar and ABX only have a few pilots left after massive furloughs.
Had we kept the freighters, we would (with appropriate management of them) be among the ranks of Atlas and Kalitta making absolute gobs of money and buying new 747-400s and 747-800s on the worldwide large freight business. Would 30 dollars an hour difference on flight crews make or break that operation? Give me a freaking break if you think that's the case.
I sure wish we were part of that, don't you?
Because making fact based emotional arguments ( such as I'm doing the same job) hasn't worked in a long time. If they did Lloyd Hill and APA would be sitting on a 52% payraise right now and we'd pattern off of them. If they did, there wouldn't be such huge disparities in pay for pilots in the same aircraft and industry. There wouldn't be a $70 per hour difference betweek FedEx and Atlas heavy drivers. There wouldn't be a $40/hr difference between USAirways and Delta A320 pilots. Even in your personal history you joined 9E whose contract was substantially beneath CMR and ASA while you guys flew the same airplane. Why was that?
All the points you raise are fact. Look at the recent history of contract negotiations. Tell me what arguments worked and which ones didn't. I'm looking for the winning argument, not the populist and feel good ones.
All the points you raise are fact. Look at the recent history of contract negotiations. Tell me what arguments worked and which ones didn't. I'm looking for the winning argument, not the populist and feel good ones.
At 9E, there was then 7 years of negotiations assisted by ALPA's finest lawyers, right?
(much more complicated that, I can't resist taking a jab when I can)
07-10-2011, 08:31 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 762
I didn't realize that you were so easily "managed." Instead of reading for managed expectations, how about reading so that you can come to an educated conclusion on what you want to put on your survey? A conclusion based on the facts surrounding our company, this industry, and where we currently stand that will provide direction for where you want to go.
Oh, you're paid more than the Unocal guys, and the CAL guys haven't been to a bankruptcy court in what, 20 years. Delta Captains make about $20-$30 more per hour than a comparable UAL guy right now. But at least they promote themselves well. Personally, I prefer the paycheck, equity, and not having 1450 on the street with an incomplete merger staring me in the face.
Oh, you're paid more than the Unocal guys, and the CAL guys haven't been to a bankruptcy court in what, 20 years. Delta Captains make about $20-$30 more per hour than a comparable UAL guy right now. But at least they promote themselves well. Personally, I prefer the paycheck, equity, and not having 1450 on the street with an incomplete merger staring me in the face.
That is like a coach telling his team, "Im glad we're a team that is over 500 for the year and we made the playoffs, but we came up short and got knocked out the first round." You go in and want to win the whole thing!! You and ALPA seem like settling for some 10% raise is the answer. Don't you want significant gains for our pilot group? A 40% pay cut under a bankruptcy contract, loss of a pension, and now the company is making money. SWA plus should be just a start. They fly just 737 and our fleet goes up to 747-777-330. Its not even apples to oranges and you keep posting on here like we can't even get over their rates. You are unreal!!
07-10-2011, 08:35 PM
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
07-10-2011, 08:37 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 762
Tell me what I made up
07-10-2011, 08:41 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: LAX ERA
Posts: 3,457
I didn't realize that you were so easily "managed." Instead of reading for managed expectations, how about reading so that you can come to an educated conclusion on what you want to put on your survey? A conclusion based on the facts surrounding our company, this industry, and where we currently stand that will provide direction for where you want to go.
Oh, you're paid more than the Unocal guys, and the CAL guys haven't been to a bankruptcy court in what, 20 years. Delta Captains make about $20-$30 more per hour than a comparable UAL guy right now. But at least they promote themselves well. Personally, I prefer the paycheck, equity, and not having 1450 on the street with an incomplete merger staring me in the face.
Oh, you're paid more than the Unocal guys, and the CAL guys haven't been to a bankruptcy court in what, 20 years. Delta Captains make about $20-$30 more per hour than a comparable UAL guy right now. But at least they promote themselves well. Personally, I prefer the paycheck, equity, and not having 1450 on the street with an incomplete merger staring me in the face.
Can ya answer a question without attacking the guy asking a question?
I really am trying to understand all this. But you being a butt head is pushing one way.....and it ain't you're way.
Lighten up dude.
Ferd
07-10-2011, 08:43 PM
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
07-10-2011, 08:45 PM
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
07-10-2011, 08:49 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Kickin’ Back
Posts: 6,971
Denny, Sorry to hear about your breakin...by the way...I was driving by your place...you live over there by the cul de sac, around the bend by the stop sign...right? Anyway, I saw a car parked out front the other night, I didn't think much about it since there is always a pool cleaning MX truck there everynight your gone, but I digress, sorry, there was a car parked in the driveway with plates that said "ALPA 1". Just what I saw.
All joking aside, that sucks. I agree with buy a big dog and more firearms. May I suggest an AR-15, any brand will do for close-in home defense. Cheers.
All joking aside, that sucks. I agree with buy a big dog and more firearms. May I suggest an AR-15, any brand will do for close-in home defense. Cheers.
Ha Ha! That's why I call her when I'm coming home from a trip........so her boyfriend has time to get his car/truck out of the driveway!!
Damn divorce would cost too much!!
I've got one big dog (a collie) but he is a pushover.
Denny
07-10-2011, 08:51 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Kickin’ Back
Posts: 6,971
Are you my old girlfriends dad???? I grew up in Bellevue and dated a Delta daughter. She lived on one of the keys in Newport shores. (actually I know its not you.....her dad retired)
I bought cameras for my house that are linked to the internet. It's fun to see what's happening while I'm on the road. You can use your phone to spy on cats, squirrels, birds, and spiders as they go pass the camera. Sorry about the theft, that sucks.
I bought cameras for my house that are linked to the internet. It's fun to see what's happening while I'm on the road. You can use your phone to spy on cats, squirrels, birds, and spiders as they go pass the camera. Sorry about the theft, that sucks.
You still out here? If so we should get together for a beer!
Denny
07-10-2011, 08:53 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
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