buzzpat

Bingo, Scambo!!

slowplay

It's a great ancillary business. Tell me again how much those 9 dedicated freighters lost us in 2008 before the shutdown?

Point is, FedEx and UPS have created a duopoly in their overnight package delivery business. They ran ABX, DHL, and the USPS into insignficant market share. They are both extremely profitable and are paying some of the highest wage rates in the US piloting business. Their main deck freighter counterparts (Atlas, Kalitta, et. al.) pay less than us on like aircraft. APC shows Atlas at $176 per hour for a 747. Astar and ABX only have a few pilots left after massive furloughs.

Because making fact based emotional arguments ( such as I'm doing the same job) hasn't worked in a long time. If they did Lloyd Hill and APA would be sitting on a 52% payraise right now and we'd pattern off of them. If they did, there wouldn't be such huge disparities in pay for pilots in the same aircraft and industry. There wouldn't be a $70 per hour difference betweek FedEx and Atlas heavy drivers. There wouldn't be a $40/hr difference between USAirways and Delta A320 pilots. Even in your personal history you joined 9E whose contract was substantially beneath CMR and ASA while you guys flew the same airplane. Why was that?

All the points you raise are fact. Look at the recent history of contract negotiations. Tell me what arguments worked and which ones didn't. I'm looking for the winning argument, not the populist and feel good ones.

scambo1

Slow;

There is more to it than you are stating. How many 747-800s is Atlas buying? Is the fact that they are hiring pilots #s equal to 25% of their list this year of any relevance? How long does it take to upgrade to 747A at atlas now and historically (time value of money)? What was their profit sharing check (rumor is $35k on average)?

I think you might be a deadzoner and the contract affects you as well, but, and this is an honestly big but, it is my opinion that you have been spinning the news for so long that you just cant give a straight from your heart answer.

Bill Lumberg

Slow,

I don't like the defeatist attitude. First of all, we need an agent to represent us, and to go to bat for us. That means the agent will play us up, not look around and try to compare us to mediocre peers that really aren't our peers. That agent would say we are the star, and should be paid accordingly.

Who are our peers? No USair or American, both floundering majors with bad business plans. We are a Worldwide carrier, with a large domestic operation as well. That means our peers are Worldwide airlines, like our JV partners Air France and KLM, along with our biggest competitor in the domesitc arena, which will be Southwest after they gobble up Airtran. The Air France and KLM guys are paid very well, and are treated well by their airlines. Same with Southwest, and now the Airtran guys, who we have been compared to in the past, will share the Southwest pay and benefits. Those three airlines are really our peers, and they are the ones DALPA should compare us to.

If ALPA doesn't want to stand up for us, let's go for the DPA. If Dalpa can't act like a Jerry Maguire type agent, fighting all the way for what WE want, then it's time to move on, even if it delays our eventual agreement. And we are worth a lot more than 17% over 4 years (with 2 or 3 more for negotiations) for our next contract. Don't get me started.....

contrails

When you can be awarded whale captain on your fourth year of longevity at DL, all of the above is valid.

Until then, it's irrelevant.

Lack of outsourcing has lead to proportional growth at those companies that some American passenger carriers will never see again.

slowplay

Who has the defeatist attitude? You?

ALPA delivered the three richest contracts in US airline history in 2000-2001 (DAL, UAL, AAA). They were destroyed in bankruptcy bargaining in the middle of the decade. The contract history came out 10 days ago. The contract comparison isn't even out yet, much less the contract survey. So you tossing out numbers must mean that's where you're comfortable...

forgot to bid

I just read I think like 20 pages.

that's a lot of reading for me. I need a mental break. I get these when we get airborne sometimes on the 88 and are flying home. While I'm looking out at nothing... also called Mississippi, or staring at the cities in the Appalachians... also called Appalachia, I just look out the window and think to myself...

Bill Lumberg

It's hard not to feel that way when there is an overwhelming amount of managing of our expectations. Every time I see an ALPA memo about "how to read a balance sheet" and "explaining fuel hedging", I just roll my eyes. Even though the Unical guys have a dysfunctional relationship at best, within their two pilot groups and management, at least they promote themselves well, and broadcast what they deserve, and what they won't give up. All we hear are whispers, unsubstantiated rumors, and get goofy memos. Let's get this survey done soon, and then let's get an opener that states clearly what we deserve, comparing us to comparable peers like AF/KLM/SWA. If they can't do that soon, then let's find someone, like the DPA, that can.

It's great that ALPA gave the three richest contracts back in 2000/2001. Since then, even with the stated synergies and potential of a powerhouse merger, not so good. I have talked to my reps in my base, and they don't seem that enthuised. Did the MEC manage their expectations?

I want to hear positive things from the MEC. I want to see a positive opener, and I want to be treated like a star. I'm not feeling the LUV.

forgot to bid

Cargo.

I don't know any numbers about Delta cargo. But I have experience with Delta Dash. When I was running a corporate operation I had tires go low on my boss' jet on the eve of a $56,000 charter. As is typical, jets only break on holidays and weekends and this was no different.

We got the ball rolling early and had two tires put on a plane from FLL-ATL on Delta Dash. A courier brought them to us and then two mechanics charged me a small fortune for 25 minutes of work. Next morning and hours before sunrise we were on our way to New York and then TNCM.

That counter-to-counter on Delta was the only option and not just because we were in ATL. Had we been in SDF the same day option from Delta Dash was it. Or I'm sure it would've been. Normally everything shipped FedEx but we couldn't wait for overnight.

So we paid for it, or the maintenance program did, and it was not cheap but it was worth every dime because looking back.

And there was a life lesson in all of it, if you run a plane commercially, and if the airplane has tire pressure gauges installed on the assembly, rip them off. When a tire goes 5% down off 160 psi it's a new tire and 10% down is both tires. Let's just say I've seen tires fluctuate that much sitting in the hangar. But one of ours was at 20% so they were goners.

Now all of that brings me to this. There may have been a name dropping LCA at a very popular airline who took it upon himself about two or so years ago to delay a flight out of Europe for 1:30 or more, as I recall, because the NOTAC was not delivered 10 minutes prior. It arrived 5 minutes prior. Just 5. It was ready to go though and a photocopy of the exact form had been made and sitting in the cockpit the entire time, but there was a point to be made, and almost 2 hours was wasted removing the hazmat. I can't imagine the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ his point cost the company and the passengers on that plane.

slowplay

I didn't realize that you were so easily "managed." Instead of reading for managed expectations, how about reading so that you can come to an educated conclusion on what you want to put on your survey? A conclusion based on the facts surrounding our company, this industry, and where we currently stand that will provide direction for where you want to go.

Oh, you're paid more than the Unocal guys, and the CAL guys haven't been to a bankruptcy court in what, 20 years. Delta Captains make about $20-$30 more per hour than a comparable UAL guy right now. But at least they promote themselves well. Personally, I prefer the paycheck, equity, and not having 1450 on the street with an incomplete merger staring me in the face.