Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
07-08-2011, 08:34 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: 320B
Posts: 781
The A320 seats are very comfortable unless you are doing a long flight. All of our over water equipped ones have the very crappy and uncomfortable ferry seats. No electrics and extremely poor lumbar support. The airplanes that have the electric seats are great however, I never seem to get those when the flight time is over 2 hrs.
07-08-2011, 09:02 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,016
Hilarious to see you screw yourself into the roof with this one. In the past ten years ALPA's always held scope sales to try to bring up pay. They're addicted to that stuff.
With assurances of furlough protection and promises of growth facilitated through outsourcing a lot of you morons will sign right up for the same crap you've been voting for a decade now.
The Delta MEC mostly has this contract to fluff their bed for retirement. They don't give a crap what happens to this place, or you. Picket the MEC, picket the union, they don't care, they don't even like unions. They like free meals, booze, trip drops and pay checks that help them keep up with college tuition costs while still retiring like an esquire, they're entitled you know.
You want to keep your job ... that's your problem.
With assurances of furlough protection and promises of growth facilitated through outsourcing a lot of you morons will sign right up for the same crap you've been voting for a decade now.
The Delta MEC mostly has this contract to fluff their bed for retirement. They don't give a crap what happens to this place, or you. Picket the MEC, picket the union, they don't care, they don't even like unions. They like free meals, booze, trip drops and pay checks that help them keep up with college tuition costs while still retiring like an esquire, they're entitled you know.
You want to keep your job ... that's your problem.
07-08-2011, 09:25 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
Of note, Glen has been very quiet lately.
Also, the AF/DAL JV's assumption is that one stop connections will work this fall in Europe. If you look at the cuts, they are designed to keep the AF 380 and 777's full. We got ORD-CDG to keep the JV ESK's relatively equal (With in the limits of the JV) but the goal was to have more connecting traffic out of CDG.
You may also see more International Cuts announced for this fall in the next few weeks.
Also, the AF/DAL JV's assumption is that one stop connections will work this fall in Europe. If you look at the cuts, they are designed to keep the AF 380 and 777's full. We got ORD-CDG to keep the JV ESK's relatively equal (With in the limits of the JV) but the goal was to have more connecting traffic out of CDG.
You may also see more International Cuts announced for this fall in the next few weeks.
07-08-2011, 09:36 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
Visibility is improving ... one very possible scenario ... hope that I am wrong
I may be out on a limb, but I'm thinking the RFP pushed a scope negotiation. As written in the Compass presentation the risk of not taking the E175 was that the TYPE would be outsourced up to its full capacities. If true, the first thing we must do is get this to the membership for a vote.
Hey guys, we can operate these airplanes here. Give us a chance.
- Scope negotiations are probably holding up the Delta Request for Proposal. It makes more sense to operate the E190, a type already operated off the property there than here.
- The this to be actionable on the MEC level means a deal is probably already hammered out.
- Best way to deal with this is going to be a push for membership ratification.
- The RFP will be used as a distraction ... hey look over here new big airplanes & promises ... while DCI grows.
I may be out on a limb, but I'm thinking the RFP pushed a scope negotiation. As written in the Compass presentation the risk of not taking the E175 was that the TYPE would be outsourced up to its full capacities. If true, the first thing we must do is get this to the membership for a vote.
Hey guys, we can operate these airplanes here. Give us a chance.
07-08-2011, 10:59 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,596
Pilot returning from Mil Leave or long term disability.
07-09-2011, 02:32 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: 127.0.0.1
Posts: 2,115
Too bad you could not have gotten a pic. One of the best photos I've seen is the one taken by a pax during the last launch - it made the media rounds.
07-09-2011, 03:33 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
So where does that leve us? A stagnant domestic fleet "maybe" getting as many 90's as 9's are leaving, and significant culling of international. Do we have a plan or are we really thinking we can shrink to prosperity by abandoning market share and letting every third world airline and day 1 start up run amuck and just hoping our retirements absorb the draw down as we fade away?
The end game is a Transnational airline. Never forget that. The North Atlantic JV with AF is as close as we can get with out some Foreign Ownership law changes. Once that happens the gloves come off. AF has the money, even though we have the size.
AF is flying the Lion's Share of the Large metal. They note that they are going after the Leisure fares, and we are going after the Business traveler, but the reality is that we are flying thinner routes, or off peak times while they are flying larger metal at peak times. (CDG-ATL for eg) All of that is fine, but realize what it is.
The JV has provided access and a guarantee of more than half of the block hours due to the equipment that we fly, but it also has given DAL a foreign partner that get the advantage of the import-export bank, and the result is obvious. They are buying a ton of large metal. We may get a few 777-300's (10-20) but the reality is that AF will be flying the majority of the "Super Premium" flying for their financial advantage that our own government has given all carriers that compete with us. Ugly yes, but it is the truth.
There is no need for a DAL Foreign holding company to get the discounts, they already have it, it is called AF.
07-09-2011, 03:35 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
I absolutely see why you would "go there" but why would RA say, up front, that everything in the RFP, from C-ceries to EMB's, would be flown by mainline pilots? Only to then take that away all for replacement airframes as we shrink? Where's the carrot? Where's even the distraction? 88's replaced with NEO's? OK, cool, I guess we all like glass magic or whatever, but is that the carrot we are supposed to fall for? Give up more jobs and we'll give you more glass? Shiney glass syndrome? Because if thats not it, the only other carrot they could possibly have would be spinning it as growth and I can't see them even being able to spin the statistics to convince 1% of us that is what is happening, much less 51%.
I think his point is to never trust a "Greek bearing gifts."
07-09-2011, 03:44 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
As I understood the original report, it was a minimal pay raise & contract extension if we would agree to the scope allowance. The minimal (5 to 10%) has since been jacked through the roof (25% plus). Remember the RFP announcement is talked about by Thanksgiving if not (ironically) Labor Day.
Aside from the cost of setting up a training program, there is not a great difference between the senior DCI pilots and the junior Delta pilots compensation packages that would provide money to reallocate across other areas of the seniority list. I doubt that outsourcing the program would provide anywhere near enough money to give the entire list 2%, much less 25%. (of course it is unlikely we'll ever see the economic analysis that puts price tags on our jobs)
While I do think it is politically possible to put a very large raise in front of the pilots for selling the bottom 1/5th of the list and stagnating the bottom 1/3, very few would break unity for 3%. Further, folks who are willing to call this what it is makes the politics uglier today than it has been in the past when junior pilots believed Comair pilots & 9/11 were responsible for their problems.
ALPA needs to come out and state "no one gets sold." Every member should be able to go to sleep at night expecting the same level of representation.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 07-09-2011 at 03:56 AM.
07-09-2011, 04:10 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
He will not get the reference. The quid has not really been talked about on the board.
As I understood the original report, it was a minimal pay raise & contract extension if we would agree to the scope allowance. The minimal (5 to 10%) has since been jacked through the roof (25% plus). Remember the RFP announcement is talked about by Thanksgiving if not (ironically) Labor Day.
Aside from the cost of setting up a training program, there is not a great difference between the senior DCI pilots and the junior Delta pilots compensation packages that would provide money to reallocate across other areas of the seniority list. I doubt that outsourcing the program would provide anywhere near enough money to give the entire list 2%, much less 25%. (of course it is unlikely we'll ever see the economic analysis that puts price tags on our jobs)
While I do think it is politically possible to put a very large raise in front of the pilots for selling the bottom 1/5th of the list and stagnating the bottom 1/3, very few would break unity for 3%. Further, folks who are willing to call this what it is makes the politics uglier today than it has been in the past when junior pilots believed Comair pilots & 9/11 were responsible for their problems.
ALPA needs to come out and state "no one gets sold." Every member should be able to go to sleep at night expecting the same level of representation.
As I understood the original report, it was a minimal pay raise & contract extension if we would agree to the scope allowance. The minimal (5 to 10%) has since been jacked through the roof (25% plus). Remember the RFP announcement is talked about by Thanksgiving if not (ironically) Labor Day.
Aside from the cost of setting up a training program, there is not a great difference between the senior DCI pilots and the junior Delta pilots compensation packages that would provide money to reallocate across other areas of the seniority list. I doubt that outsourcing the program would provide anywhere near enough money to give the entire list 2%, much less 25%. (of course it is unlikely we'll ever see the economic analysis that puts price tags on our jobs)
While I do think it is politically possible to put a very large raise in front of the pilots for selling the bottom 1/5th of the list and stagnating the bottom 1/3, very few would break unity for 3%. Further, folks who are willing to call this what it is makes the politics uglier today than it has been in the past when junior pilots believed Comair pilots & 9/11 were responsible for their problems.
ALPA needs to come out and state "no one gets sold." Every member should be able to go to sleep at night expecting the same level of representation.
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