Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
07-05-2011, 07:50 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Hypothetical situation . . . you're riding in the back of an MD88. The flight is late, and the cabin is stifling hot. The captain makes the welcome PA in the cabin stating he's flown fighters for [number greater than 20] years and thus likes to spend a lot of time upside down in airplanes, and on this flight plans on doing a roll after takeoff . . . do you laugh?
I just sit there like this:
07-05-2011, 07:52 PM
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
So what you guys are saying is that you would like to see an opener like the American pilots gave to management back in 2006? They really should be back in section six right now from the last contract.
Serious question for those that are currently demanding a certain rate and improvements: if we go 5 years without a new contract and NO raises during that time, are you going to be praising ALPA for sticking to the hard line?
Disclaimer: I do not do any ALPA work, I have my own opinion on a minimum pay raise and believe me, it is significant. I don't expect the union to negotiate in the public, what I expect is for them to get my money and lifestyle back.
Serious question for those that are currently demanding a certain rate and improvements: if we go 5 years without a new contract and NO raises during that time, are you going to be praising ALPA for sticking to the hard line?
Disclaimer: I do not do any ALPA work, I have my own opinion on a minimum pay raise and believe me, it is significant. I don't expect the union to negotiate in the public, what I expect is for them to get my money and lifestyle back.
And more importantly, do you think we should ask for something less than what the American pilots asked for... solely based on the outcome of the American pilots to date?
07-05-2011, 07:59 PM
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Space Shuttle PIC
Posts: 2,007
Are you saying get DPA in now or wait to see what happens and then vote DPA? I want to hear what DPA has to say and I am NOT convinced they can deliver and do better before this contract deadline...... That is not to say they cant in the future but time is running out. MGMT will use DPA and ALPA to fracture the pilot group. It plays right into their hands...
I am very curious as to why you state DPA will get the contract we deserve? I am sure of their intent and I support it but DPA has a lot to do to be making such bold statements... am I wrong here?
I am very curious as to why you state DPA will get the contract we deserve? I am sure of their intent and I support it but DPA has a lot to do to be making such bold statements... am I wrong here?
07-05-2011, 08:05 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: 320B
Posts: 781
Do you think the percentage increase (which, BTW, was only a partial pay restoration) the American pilots were asking for is the ONLY factor that resulted in their lack of progress? Or could there have been other factors that contributed to that outcome?
And more importantly, do you think we should ask for something less than what the American pilots asked for... solely based on the outcome of the American pilots to date?
And more importantly, do you think we should ask for something less than what the American pilots asked for... solely based on the outcome of the American pilots to date?
Actually, I believe that what they asked for was complete restoration, including adjustments for inflation, back to 1992 levels.
No, I don't think we should ask for less than that, however, I don't think that we will see rates like that on this contract. It would be great if I was wrong.
07-05-2011, 08:08 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
FTB,
Good post and logic. Sorry to keep bringing this up... but I still think what you're coming up with for a percentage pay increase to match SWA is not enough. Let's take a look at another set of numbers from a different source. "Smokey", an 11-year SWA Captain posted here his W-2 number and the number of block hours he flew for the year. Let's see what it might take a typical MD-88/90 Captain (using 12 year numbers) to match this SWA Captain.
"Smokey" - 11-year SWA Captain:
W-2 - $224,860
Block hours for the year - 761
Typical MD-88/90 12 year Captain:
Average rate of ~$163 X 75 hours per month => W-2 of $146,700
Since the 75 hours per month is credit, I guess it's possible this Captain only flies 761 block hours for the year.
Now, what percentage increase does it take to get $146,700 up to $224,680? Answer: 53%
Good post and logic. Sorry to keep bringing this up... but I still think what you're coming up with for a percentage pay increase to match SWA is not enough. Let's take a look at another set of numbers from a different source. "Smokey", an 11-year SWA Captain posted here his W-2 number and the number of block hours he flew for the year. Let's see what it might take a typical MD-88/90 Captain (using 12 year numbers) to match this SWA Captain.
"Smokey" - 11-year SWA Captain:
W-2 - $224,860
Block hours for the year - 761
Typical MD-88/90 12 year Captain:
Average rate of ~$163 X 75 hours per month => W-2 of $146,700
Since the 75 hours per month is credit, I guess it's possible this Captain only flies 761 block hours for the year.
Now, what percentage increase does it take to get $146,700 up to $224,680? Answer: 53%
The reason my % is not enough is because it's a verifiable minimum per APC's pay tables, but it does not take into account even a simple issue - min guarantee between us and them and the affect parity there would have on our ALV and average W2s.
The thing is if we increase the min guarantee from 70 to 78 do we end up furloughing?
07-05-2011, 08:10 PM
Sho me da money!
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: B25, Left
Posts: 947
I just want an opener from DALPA that reflects what we deserve. I haven't been hearing flattering numbers lately. If the Airtran guys can get SWA wages, I think we deserve them too. The best way to steer DALPA in the right direction is to give them something to think about, ie the DPA. We need to get their attention, and sending in the card means you'd like a vote, not that you're ready to throw DALPA away. How has SWAPA done for their pilots? Our dues numbers are huge, and if DALPA doesn't want to respect what we want, then we should seek other alternatives. I really hope the DALPA opener is positive and reflective of our wants. I won't let them manage my expectations. I will fill out that survey and I have expectations of my own, as should we all.
07-05-2011, 08:15 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Actually, I believe that what they asked for was complete restoration, including adjustments for inflation, back to 1992 levels.
No, I don't think we should ask for less than that, however, I don't think that we will see rates like that on this contract. It would be great if I was wrong.
No, I don't think we should ask for less than that, however, I don't think that we will see rates like that on this contract. It would be great if I was wrong.
07-05-2011, 08:19 PM
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
I agree. People should see what it would take to get W2 parity and it will be a much higher number.
The reason my % is not enough is because it's a verifiable minimum per APC's pay tables, but it does not take into account even a simple issue - min guarantee between us and them and the affect parity there would have on our ALV and average W2s.
The thing is if we increase the min guarantee from 70 to 78 do we end up furloughing?
The reason my % is not enough is because it's a verifiable minimum per APC's pay tables, but it does not take into account even a simple issue - min guarantee between us and them and the affect parity there would have on our ALV and average W2s.
The thing is if we increase the min guarantee from 70 to 78 do we end up furloughing?
07-05-2011, 08:22 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: 767A (Ret)
Posts: 6,248
It would be nice if both sides presented a reasonable wish-list, but I'm afraid that unrealistic openers have become so ingrained in the collective bargaining process that it is now foolhardy to start out with a moderate position. The other side will simply not believe that you haven't left yourself plenty of negotiating room, and the process may be lengthened instead of shortened. 
07-05-2011, 08:24 PM
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Actually, I believe that what they asked for was complete restoration, including adjustments for inflation, back to 1992 levels.
No, I don't think we should ask for less than that, however, I don't think that we will see rates like that on this contract. It would be great if I was wrong.
No, I don't think we should ask for less than that, however, I don't think that we will see rates like that on this contract. It would be great if I was wrong.
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