alfaromeo

All right, here is a quote straight from the DPA website:

So even DPA knows that the basis of your contract is the financial condition of the company that you work for. If you are going to negotiate, then you have to start with an accurate picture. If you pull out some propaganda from a flyer that is meant to persuade other pilots to accept a bad seniority integration, then you might as well ask the negotiators to put on a clown suit. You have to have credibility both with the people you are negotiating against and with the NMB that has the power to suspend your negotiations indefinitely.

So, everyone would like more money and more time off. Get over yourself and realize that everyone has the same goal, it is just that to accomplish your goal, you can't act like an idiot and expect any results. Maybe that will give some brief moment of Zen on the internet to spout off how tough you are, but in the end I want more money. Losing your head and making a fool of yourself is not the way to get it. Period.

So I don't know who you are, but you have convinced me that I don't want you running the show. Emotional rants will get me nothing.

727C47

while i respect your loyalty to DAL, you are wrong about SWA,(DISCLOSURE,i have immediate family flying for them),their union is focused on their pilot group alone and has achieved great things for them,ALPA national is a contradiction ,representing groups whose interests are diametrically opposed and trying to be a fair arbiter to all,good luck with that. I have no skin in your game but i think you would be better served with a union devoted to your people and your concerns (read:SCOPE<SCOPE<SCOPE),anyway happy 4th !!! Good luck gents I have a lot of buds at DAL.

shiznit

That publication also is a management kool-aid drinkers paradise. 10 pages are devoted to how wonderful the company is and how they have picnic together, etc.

I thought that an union should NOT carry the company's water?

It is a publication that 'brags' on SWA pilots, its not filled with 10-k numbers, actual bid results, end of month numbers, etc. Just one or two anecdotal trip trades....remember that the guy who "dropped" the low time trip in the example to pick up, one person is now flying one less trip that month and/or someone else had to fly the lower time trip be it a reserve or a line holder. Its an "I LUV Me....and So Should You" rag. Little more.

Again, you hold up SWA as a model.... You're shooting way too low and damaging MY chances of a better outcome on the next PWA.

shiznit

See previous post.

sinca3

The beginning of Sky Team Airlines:
Air France-KLM to Follow BA With M&A-Friendly Management Model - Bloomberg

shiznit

Air National Guard.

Avoid active mil, too long a commitment now (wings +10), and you might end up flying a desktop computer.

Any 4 year college and go to the local flight school. Least expensive route by far, but doesn't offer the ability to create connections in the industry (See FTB's roomate), that can translate to 2-5 years of a headstart.

a 4 Year university with a flight program (Purdue, Auburn, Ariz. Stat., Ohio State., a few smaller state schools (U Minn. St. Cloud, Mid. Tenn. St. Univ., etc.) Positives are lots of accredited internship oppotunities, many industry connections, reasonable prices(state schools), and also the option to change majors into many other areas and not have to change schools, lots of extracurricular options, and a more traditional "college experience".

Private 4 year schools (ERAU?), really, really expensive, but you do get the internship opportunities and industry connections that are very helpful. If the person decides to change majors to something outside aviation, transferring is pretty much the only option.

Any 4 year anywhere and then go to a pilot academy, AllATP's, knock out all the ratings in 9 months right after graduation (can be kinda pricey, but effective in the amount of time spent) get into flight instructing and onto a 121 job soon thereafter.

shiznit

Rumor. Speculation.

No "ALPA dude" will spout numbers (well anyone in a capacity to have a direct effect on neg. (LEC/MEC/NC).

Once again.....DALPA has not polled the pilots yet........It is coming this summer/early fall.....

Ask anyone who was around for the C2K contract survey when it came out!!!!!

There is almost 18 months until the Amendable date, and there are 3 Legacy airlines who are already in talks. When(if) one of those 3 inks a new deal that is above the current SWA deal, all of the people who wanted DALPA to make a public campaign of "We want SWA" will look like fools for setting the bar too low. Now you go into negotiations and have hurt the leverage of the NC when the Company goes "You just said for a year that you wanted SWA, here it is...." when AA or UCAL may have exceeded that by 5-10-15%!!!!!

Bill Lumberg

When are the next elections? Prior to the contract or opener? If not, and the opener is weak, then we have a year or two before the contract is done, which is enough time to vote in DPA. That could delay a contract, but it will more reflect what the group wants.

Dirty

This kind of propaganda reminds me of being a new hire at DAL when crew scheduling comes in and shows you how the one captain is successfully doing "Rolling Thunder". They spun it in such a way that I could expect that as the norm... as a new hire on reserve.

However, I have many good friends at SWA and they certainly make more than I do with more days off.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that while their memo to the tranny guys looks like pure propaganda the fact still remains that my buddies at SWA still make more (way more on reserve) and enjoy more days off.

DAL 88 Driver

Actually, I think under normal circumstances the union and management should work together. SWA has a management that values and respects its employees. And they back that up with the way they TREAT their employees. That's the way business is supposed to work! From what I've seen, I think SWAPA's relationship with management is appropriate. DALPA's relationship with DAL management is a completely different story, IMO.

But the bottom line on the ValuTran welcome publication (as it relates to our discussion here) is this: Is it factual or not? Does the average SWA Captain make over $230k or not? Does the average SWA F/O make over $140k or not? Do they average working 12 days per month? If this data is true, then they are being paid WAY more than Delta's domestic narrowbody pilots... and working LESS days! Any attempt to minimize the importance and relevance of that to us, is just spin and an attempt to lower our expectations.

I don't think you've proven anything with your "anecdotal trip trade" example. And maybe I am shooting too low. I'd like for our MD-88/90 Captains to make more than $230,000 per year. Heck, I'd like to make $1 million per year. But we have to deal in reality. To get our MD-88/90 Captains to $230k would require about a 57% increase to our current pay rates. If you want to shoot for more than that, I'm all for it. But good luck with that with ALPA as our bargaining agent. I'll be surprised if their opening position will be even a 30% pay increase.