Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
06-30-2011, 06:49 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Why is this math so challenging?
IF we don't get an interim agreement before 2013, and
IF AirTran pilots are brought to SWA pay parity in the next 18 months, and
IF you are only looking at the 10-15% of 777 pilots on reserve...
This is more typical Carl math. Only in Carl land, is $210 greater than $217.
Having said all that, I agree 100% that we should be making SWA rates on our comparable airplane and we should be indexed up from there for the bigger equipment. But if you think the donut boys, who are trying to ensure we will be having a representational vote right in the middle of Section 6 negotiations, are the avenue to success, there's nothing more I can say.
IF we don't get an interim agreement before 2013, and
IF AirTran pilots are brought to SWA pay parity in the next 18 months, and
IF you are only looking at the 10-15% of 777 pilots on reserve...
This is more typical Carl math. Only in Carl land, is $210 greater than $217.
Having said all that, I agree 100% that we should be making SWA rates on our comparable airplane and we should be indexed up from there for the bigger equipment. But if you think the donut boys, who are trying to ensure we will be having a representational vote right in the middle of Section 6 negotiations, are the avenue to success, there's nothing more I can say.
Sure $217 and $210 is close, but this doesn't sound close to me:
A SWA pilot on reserve will make $14,000 more than a Delta 747 or 777 pilot on reserve even though one can only be called out on short notice to fly a 122-137 seat jet domestically while the other could be called out on short notice to fly a 390+ seat or 270+ seat jet to other side of the planet which may be to the west, to the east or over the north pole; who knows where but make sure you pack your bags because you'll probably be gone for 1 to 2 weeks.
06-30-2011, 06:54 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
I would point out that you are a RES pilot and while you have flown a lot for a RES I would but the avg ER pilot has a lower credit ratio than you. (I have no data to back that up though) My block to credit ratio is around 1.7 for the last 12 months right now so I should not complain. 
I also think that the avg NB Delta pilot flies very close to the number of actual hours that a SWA pilot does. I would guess within 5-6 hours a month or 60-72 hours per year. There is little to no credit in the domestic trips so what you fly is what you get.
I have a feeling that most would fly an extra 5-6 hours per month with an avg extra day or two "OFF" in order to make much more money.
International is a different story and skews the numbers when trying to make a good comparison.
In any event. I wholeheartedly agree that we need more soft money in the next contract. Leg-by-leg cnx pay, and 6+ hrs minimum calendar day pay for all pilots, and 75 hr min guarantee are a must for the next contract.
In fact with a 6:15 min day I could let the leg-by-leg cnx pay think go.
I also think that the avg NB Delta pilot flies very close to the number of actual hours that a SWA pilot does. I would guess within 5-6 hours a month or 60-72 hours per year. There is little to no credit in the domestic trips so what you fly is what you get.
I have a feeling that most would fly an extra 5-6 hours per month with an avg extra day or two "OFF" in order to make much more money.
International is a different story and skews the numbers when trying to make a good comparison.
In any event. I wholeheartedly agree that we need more soft money in the next contract. Leg-by-leg cnx pay, and 6+ hrs minimum calendar day pay for all pilots, and 75 hr min guarantee are a must for the next contract.
In fact with a 6:15 min day I could let the leg-by-leg cnx pay think go.
I agree, a better min day, not a duty period average or duty period min is needed. Many scoff at that, but these 10.30 hr three days that guys are flying 18 hrs in a month to get to the LCW are insane.
06-30-2011, 07:03 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
I don't know a single rep working at Dalpa who believes we should be paid less then SWA in the next contract. When you make the comparison however the number that will count and be the number used by the NMB is total block hour costs not hourly pay rates. Pilots tend to have a focus on pay rates when there are so many other important area's in the contract that we need to make priorities.
So are reps pushing for a 25% to 30% plus raise at the outset?
06-30-2011, 07:09 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
- 70 hour guarantee is fine
- Every period of short call generates same 5:15 credit as pilots flying a trip
- Allow pilots to bid for as much short call as they can stand
- Status Quo w/ regard to max days on (no morons working 26 days a month)
- Allow reserves to white slip
I'm all for working and getting paid for it. Those who don't want to commute for reserve could use the long call to their advantage too.
06-30-2011, 07:15 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: 7ERB, no M88, no 7ER, no A320, NEXT!
Posts: 397
I recently flew with a MSP Captain who told me that he would go for a 12% pay increase, an additional 10% company contribution to 401k, and a significant reduction in health insurance premiums, all to add up to what he called a roughly 30% pay raise.
discuss...
p.s. this idea is being floated by some of the reps...
discuss...
p.s. this idea is being floated by some of the reps...
06-30-2011, 07:21 AM
Inventory survival kit ..
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Seeking no jacket required rotations
Posts: 1,069
For everyone else:
As I posted earlier, THE CURRENT SWA CA PAYRATE IS NOT $210/hr, ITS $212/hr minus a few pennies.
Its a $5/hr difference from 747/777 pay at DAL.
06-30-2011, 07:21 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
SWA just negotiated the pay rate for the 800. If they did not ask for a different pay rate during that negotiation its unlikely they will on the 2012 contract. SWAPA does not actually like the result of being at the top of the pay scales. They would like nothing better then for other airlines to regain their historical advantage. Being at the top has led to stagnation and no growth for the first time in their history. They have essentially had their current pay rates since 2002 and have asked for only token raises since then. Don't look for any major push on SWAPA's part for any large raises or changes in the contract in 2012. The critical negotiations for Delta pilots are USAir, American and United. It does not appear likely that any of those airlines will reach a agreement prior to our amendable date.
06-30-2011, 07:22 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
I recently flew with a MSP Captain who told me that he would go for a 12% pay increase, an additional 10% company contribution to 401k, and a significant reduction in health insurance premiums, all to add up to what he called a roughly 30% pay raise.
discuss...
p.s. this idea is being floated by some of the reps...
discuss...
p.s. this idea is being floated by some of the reps...
Must haves are fixing 23K. They go to the bottom of the bucked, what Bucking just wrote, the 5th and 6th weeks of vacation returning, and fixing the min day to a min day not a DPA or a DPM, and adding sick time. First and foremost is a Domestic Cabatoge clause that protects us from an end round in Sky Team, a sunset of DCI agreements, and the ability of our section on not just to bound DAL coded flying by any holding company or corporation that does a metal neutral, code share, interline, etc agreement with.
06-30-2011, 07:22 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
I recently flew with a MSP Captain who told me that he would go for a 12% pay increase, an additional 10% company contribution to 401k, and a significant reduction in health insurance premiums, all to add up to what he called a roughly 30% pay raise.
discuss...
p.s. this idea is being floated by some of the reps...
discuss...
p.s. this idea is being floated by some of the reps...
06-30-2011, 07:22 AM
Inventory survival kit ..
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Seeking no jacket required rotations
Posts: 1,069
I recently flew with a MSP Captain who told me that he would go for a 12% pay increase, an additional 10% company contribution to 401k, and a significant reduction in health insurance premiums, all to add up to what he called a roughly 30% pay raise.
discuss...
p.s. this idea is being floated by some of the reps...
discuss...
p.s. this idea is being floated by some of the reps...
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