Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

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06-29-2011, 07:49 PM

#69311

slowplay

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Feb 2008

Posts: 2,539

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfaromeo

Holy cow. It took me 17 seconds to look up the data on this very web site. It says $210 but I think the true rate is $212. Are you all such helpless little children you can't do research on your own? No wait, Slowplay didn't spoon feed me information so it must not exist, or he must be trying to fool me. Gaak, what can I do if I am not handed information on a silver platter? I guess I just have to sit in the corner and cry like a baby. GROW UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Exactly. Carl asserts as fact that which is not. He gets called on it, and the guy that wrote a "kiss and tell" book complains that the detes are getting left out...

For Buzzpat, the SWA rate is listed at $210 per hour on this site. Helpful? I want to make a lot more than that. You?

For the FlyingWhining...how about putting up on your assertion that reps are making twice what Captain's are making as you carry your donut talking points. Only problem is there's only donut holes in your story.

Hey, is TC enjoying his extra compensation from management? How many of his fellow pilots did he turn in for discipline today?

06-29-2011, 07:55 PM

#69312

slowplay

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Feb 2008

Posts: 2,539

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nosmo King

Straight hourly rates, not annual compensation:

DAL payrates eff 01/01/2011
SWA payrates eff 2011??

12yr DAL 747 Captain $217.07
12yr SWA 737 Captain $211.98
12yr DAL 330 Captain $205.04
12yr DAL 767 Captain $181.69
12yr DAL 737 Captain $175.13 (-900)
12yr DAL 737 Captain $174.23 (-800/700)
12yr DAL M88 Captain $161.23

More tidbits:
Reserve guarantee DAL 70 hours
Reserve guarantee SWA 79 hours

I note that you left out of your tidbits that when on reserve SWA stands 15 shortcalls of 15 hours per month, with a 2 hour callout window. I believe their guarantee is 78 hours, but I'll have to double check. Are you leaving out some of the detes?

06-29-2011, 08:07 PM

#69313

Eck4Life

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Joined APC: Oct 2008

Posts: 289

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nosmo King

There is a reason that Scope is Section 1 in the PWA.

Compensation is Section 3.

Been that way for awhile.

+1. Your payrate can be $1000 per hour, but if there aren't any airplanes it is worthless. Scope is paramount.

And for all the senior guys that think a scope relaxation will not affect them, you are mistaken. If we allow them more 76 seaters or larger airframes in exchange for higher payrates, you can kiss the majority of the narrowbodys at mainline goodbye. Your mid to lower seniority widebody left seat will magically turn into one on the opposite side of the cockpit. The turd WILL roll uphill.

Last edited by Eck4Life; 06-29-2011 at 08:23 PM.

06-29-2011, 08:09 PM

#69314

FlyingViking

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Joined APC: Sep 2007

Position: B-7ER JFK

Posts: 931

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingViking

....Add in the fact that some of our reps are making twice of what some of our Captains are making ........

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowplay

......For the FlyingWhining...how about putting up on your assertion that reps are making twice what Captain's are making as .......

You just never seem to get the details right, just twisted to your liking....

06-29-2011, 08:12 PM

#69315

contrails

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Joined APC: Mar 2005

Posts: 1,947

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowplay

You seem to be leaving out the fact that:

- Reserves at SWA pretty much fly every day and don't sit around on 2hr callout

- That leaves: SWA reserve=15 days off

06-29-2011, 08:20 PM

#69316

FlyingViking

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Joined APC: Sep 2007

Position: B-7ER JFK

Posts: 931

Quote:

Originally Posted by contrails

You seem to be leaving out the fact that:

- Reserves at SWA pretty much fly every day and don't sit around on 2hr callout

- That leaves: SWA reserve=15 days off

At least he is consistent....

06-29-2011, 08:22 PM

#69317

Eck4Life

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Oct 2008

Posts: 289

Quote:

Originally Posted by nwaf16dude

Pay rates are great, but I think we should mostly be focusing on other ways to increase compensation, like bringing back significant night pay, big nums for international pay, and a huge (x4) increase in per diem. And pay from doors closed to open. Larger minimum calendar day, not duty period. These are all ways to make significantly more cash, some tax advantaged, with lower increases to hourly rates. That way the company gets to tell the financial community that we only gave x when the reality is much more.

+2. This way the company can't pander as effectively to everyone in the company and the financial market who will be watching that we greedy pilots are willing to shut this place down in order to get $500 per hour while you make $20 per hour. It would be a huge benefit to make the same increased wages in work rules vs. payrates in my eyes. That way the fight with the public's perception wouldn't be as hard.

06-29-2011, 08:30 PM

#69318

forgot to bid

veut gagner à la loterie

Joined APC: Apr 2008

Position: Light Chop

Posts: 23,286

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nosmo King

If nothing changes in either contract and AirTran guys get
matched by 2013, every 12 yr captain at SWA will make less (per hour) than a 747 captain at DAL.

HOWEVER

The SWA Captains will make more (per hour)than all the DAL A330, 767-400, 767-300/200 captains.

I think it is fair to say that AirTran guys will be making more than DAL widebody Captains in 2013.

Straight hourly rates, not annual compensation:

DAL payrates eff 01/01/2011
SWA payrates eff 2011??

12yr DAL 747 Captain $217.07
12yr SWA 737 Captain $211.98
12yr DAL 330 Captain $205.04
12yr DAL 767 Captain $181.69
12yr DAL 737 Captain $175.13 (-900)
12yr DAL 737 Captain $174.23 (-800/700)
12yr DAL M88 Captain $161.23

More tidbits:
Reserve guarantee DAL 70 hours
Reserve guarantee SWA 79 hours

Yes, proof that DAL pays it's female and minority pilots less than SWA pays its male pilots for the same work. Equal pay for equal work. Are our female and minority pilots not worth equal pay? I think not. Raise it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Correct, and correct.

But also remember that no matter what you put down on your survey, we'll be working under these BK/emergency rates until AT LEAST 2013...while AirTran pilots will be making more than our 744/777 Captains.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowplay

Uh, not exactly.

According to APC pay tables:

AirTran 737 rate:$163
Delta 737 rate: $174
Delta 747 rate: $217

AirTran is being operated as a wholly owned subsidiary (Guadalupe holdings). I expect that they will eventually come under the SWA contract/pay rates, but there hasn't been a JCBA negotiated. The history of negotiating that document isn't very pretty for major/national airlines. AAA/AWA have been at it since 2005. UAL/CAL have been at it since May of 2010. The SWA/AAI integration has and will continue to sorely test the "culture" just like it has everywhere else. The threads on this board are proof of that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

I didn't say AirTran pilots ARE making...I said AirTran pilots WILL be making more than our 777/744 Captains. You insinuate that AirTran pilots won't be brought up to SWA rates anytime soon...I disagree. And when they are, you can trot out your standard blather that they aren't our peers.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy

Carl, I find this laughable. What makes you think AirTran pilots will be making more than 777 Captains in 2013? SWA pilots maybe, but not AirTran....

Just because DAL gave you guys parity on day 1, don't think that is typical. I suspect AirTran guys will phase in over ~3 years to reach SWA pay parity. Mark my word.

You were lucky... they won't be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowplay

Exactly. Carl asserts as fact that which is not. He gets called on it, and the guy that wrote a "kiss and tell" book complains that the detes are getting left out...

For Buzzpat, the SWA rate is listed at $210 per hour on this site. Helpful? I want to make a lot more than that. You?

I'm so confused about this interaction. I read Carl's post as saying:

1) We're stuck with current rate table until at least 2013, which is true is it not?

2) By the time we get new pay rates AirTran pilots will transition to SWA pay rates, will they not?

3) AirTran pilots therefore will be making SWA pay which is higher than DAL pay for 747/777 A's, which is true if you you can believe APC numbers:

$210/hr for SWA x 78 hours (min pay) x 12 months is greater than DAL 747/777 $217/hr x 70 hours x 12 months.

Therefore: SWA 737 A $196K > DAL 747/777 A $182K.

So by 2013, won't we still be on our current rates while AirTran A's make more than our DAL 777/747 A's?

06-29-2011, 08:40 PM

#69319

LeineLodge

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Joined APC: Apr 2008

Position: DAL FO

Posts: 2,177

Quote:

Originally Posted by forgot to bid

I'm so confused. I read Carl's post as saying:

1) We're stuck with current rate table until at least 2013, which is true is it not?

2) By the time we get new pay rates AirTran pilots will transition to SWA pay rates, will they not?

3) AirTran pilots therefore will be making SWA pay which is higher than DAL pay for 747/777 A's, which is true if you you can believe APC numbers:

$210/hr for SWA x 78 hours (min pay) x 12 months is greater than DAL 747/777 $217/hr x 70 hours x 12 months.

Therefore: SWA 737 A $196K > DAL 747/777 A $182K.

So don't SWA pilots make more than our 747/777 A's?

You're making FAR too much sense tonight. I really haven't felt my expectations managed much until the "usual suspects" came out tonight. Jesus H. is it too much for our union guys to be on board with us and want to be paid at least as much as the LCC across the ramp (HINT HINT: IT AFFECTS YOUR PAY AS WELL! GET ON BOARD!!!)