Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
06-20-2011, 07:08 PM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
06-20-2011, 07:12 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: A330B
Posts: 102
................
06-20-2011, 07:16 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
HA!
Now that you've been busted Mr. Soon-to-be Titan of the Skies, I have two questions for you.
A) Alaska already has the Eskimo thing on its tail, why are you putting a wife swapping meat eatin' Eskimo on your tail? (insert green smile guy)
B) Can I start your regional feeder?
FTB ain't no dummy, he knows where the money is in this business.
Now that you've been busted Mr. Soon-to-be Titan of the Skies, I have two questions for you.
A) Alaska already has the Eskimo thing on its tail, why are you putting a wife swapping meat eatin' Eskimo on your tail? (insert green smile guy)
B) Can I start your regional feeder?
FTB ain't no dummy, he knows where the money is in this business.
06-20-2011, 07:32 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,906
Not inexplicable really.. it is a money thing, pure and simple. And it is not lost on me that it costs pilot jobs when DGS takes over the simulators, but... I have always had a problem with the fiefdoms that seemed to sprout up when we had seniority list instructors. It would be OK with me I guess if they had to be able to hold what they instructed on, and there were term limits..
Not digging at ya, but there seems to be an overriding generalization by guys that the only way to do things is the one way, and even the way that other airlines do things, despite being successful at it, can't possibly work because of the way the some guys have to squeeze it into THEIR experience, rather than the experience of the people who actually used BOTH systems.
We've already been through this with a number of topics, where once it's explained the way things REALLY worked, the same guys go "huh, yea, I guess that would work pretty well." Some of those topics already discussed include the APA process for bidding, paperwork, and now we get to do it for seniority list instructors.
Certainly, after all the things we gave up in BK, somehow the requirement to use seniority list instructors anytime the motion was on was considered pretty important by the fNWA guys, because we kept it in the contract.
Anyway, enough of that rant. Here's how instructors worked at NWA, with no judgment on other systems:
1) It was a combined department. Training/checking. You might just do OE, or just Sims (which included training, and doing MVs, LOEs, etc), line checks, or all of the above. APDs also did training, and ordinary events along with type rides.
Because it was a combined department, there was a VERY tight feedback loop between the line and training. OE was a complete NON event. There was ZERO "you'll get that on OE". The way you flew the airplane was identical to the way you flew the sim. There were no fiefdoms because there weren't any "fiefs".
There was ZERO variation between instructors. The way you learned things was identical from IP to IP, and from sim to OE.
2) You could only become an instructor for an aircraft that you currently held. If you got displaced, you lost your instructor gig, too. If you got a bid for a new airplane, you lost your instructor gig. You were free to sign up for your new airplane, but no guarantees.
3) You were a line pilot who instructed, NOT an instructor who flew the line once in a while. IPs doing sims were expected to be "in the box" 6 months out of 12, but which 6 were up to the training department (they'd take your requests "under advisement"), but when things were slow, you might fly 8 months. More often you'd do 2 months in the sim and 2 on the line.
4) A regular month was 16 events. Max was 19. "Seat support" counted as an event. Two events a day had restrictions. Events 17,18, and 19 were "overtime" and paid %150.
5) Pay was the max for the month, obviously for the airplane you held, with a $600 override. Hotels were provided, as was PS to work.
Last I heard, SLIPs were worth 350-500 pilots in staffing.
NU
06-20-2011, 08:05 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Still in one
Posts: 784
Nu
What a concept. We didn't need a standards department because it was already part of training......
What a concept. We didn't need a standards department because it was already part of training......
06-20-2011, 08:36 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: maddoggy dog
Posts: 1,026
This is so true......we humans suck.
(except for ftb....he already started a regional airline for spackler air. The bastard is already making 10% profit on his fee for departure gig.)
06-20-2011, 08:41 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Heyas T,
Not digging at ya, but there seems to be an overriding generalization by guys that the only way to do things is the one way, and even the way that other airlines do things, despite being successful at it, can't possibly work because of the way the some guys have to squeeze it into THEIR experience, rather than the experience of the people who actually used BOTH systems.
We've already been through this with a number of topics, where once it's explained the way things REALLY worked, the same guys go "huh, yea, I guess that would work pretty well." Some of those topics already discussed include the APA process for bidding, paperwork, and now we get to do it for seniority list instructors.
Certainly, after all the things we gave up in BK, somehow the requirement to use seniority list instructors anytime the motion was on was considered pretty important by the fNWA guys, because we kept it in the contract.
Anyway, enough of that rant. Here's how instructors worked at NWA, with no judgment on other systems:
1) It was a combined department. Training/checking. You might just do OE, or just Sims (which included training, and doing MVs, LOEs, etc), line checks, or all of the above. APDs also did training, and ordinary events along with type rides.
Because it was a combined department, there was a VERY tight feedback loop between the line and training. OE was a complete NON event. There was ZERO "you'll get that on OE". The way you flew the airplane was identical to the way you flew the sim. There were no fiefdoms because there weren't any "fiefs".
There was ZERO variation between instructors. The way you learned things was identical from IP to IP, and from sim to OE.
2) You could only become an instructor for an aircraft that you currently held. If you got displaced, you lost your instructor gig, too. If you got a bid for a new airplane, you lost your instructor gig. You were free to sign up for your new airplane, but no guarantees.
3) You were a line pilot who instructed, NOT an instructor who flew the line once in a while. IPs doing sims were expected to be "in the box" 6 months out of 12, but which 6 were up to the training department (they'd take your requests "under advisement"), but when things were slow, you might fly 8 months. More often you'd do 2 months in the sim and 2 on the line.
4) A regular month was 16 events. Max was 19. "Seat support" counted as an event. Two events a day had restrictions. Events 17,18, and 19 were "overtime" and paid %150.
5) Pay was the max for the month, obviously for the airplane you held, with a $600 override. Hotels were provided, as was PS to work.
Last I heard, SLIPs were worth 350-500 pilots in staffing.
NU
Not digging at ya, but there seems to be an overriding generalization by guys that the only way to do things is the one way, and even the way that other airlines do things, despite being successful at it, can't possibly work because of the way the some guys have to squeeze it into THEIR experience, rather than the experience of the people who actually used BOTH systems.
We've already been through this with a number of topics, where once it's explained the way things REALLY worked, the same guys go "huh, yea, I guess that would work pretty well." Some of those topics already discussed include the APA process for bidding, paperwork, and now we get to do it for seniority list instructors.
Certainly, after all the things we gave up in BK, somehow the requirement to use seniority list instructors anytime the motion was on was considered pretty important by the fNWA guys, because we kept it in the contract.
Anyway, enough of that rant. Here's how instructors worked at NWA, with no judgment on other systems:
1) It was a combined department. Training/checking. You might just do OE, or just Sims (which included training, and doing MVs, LOEs, etc), line checks, or all of the above. APDs also did training, and ordinary events along with type rides.
Because it was a combined department, there was a VERY tight feedback loop between the line and training. OE was a complete NON event. There was ZERO "you'll get that on OE". The way you flew the airplane was identical to the way you flew the sim. There were no fiefdoms because there weren't any "fiefs".
There was ZERO variation between instructors. The way you learned things was identical from IP to IP, and from sim to OE.
2) You could only become an instructor for an aircraft that you currently held. If you got displaced, you lost your instructor gig, too. If you got a bid for a new airplane, you lost your instructor gig. You were free to sign up for your new airplane, but no guarantees.
3) You were a line pilot who instructed, NOT an instructor who flew the line once in a while. IPs doing sims were expected to be "in the box" 6 months out of 12, but which 6 were up to the training department (they'd take your requests "under advisement"), but when things were slow, you might fly 8 months. More often you'd do 2 months in the sim and 2 on the line.
4) A regular month was 16 events. Max was 19. "Seat support" counted as an event. Two events a day had restrictions. Events 17,18, and 19 were "overtime" and paid %150.
5) Pay was the max for the month, obviously for the airplane you held, with a $600 override. Hotels were provided, as was PS to work.
Last I heard, SLIPs were worth 350-500 pilots in staffing.
NU
06-20-2011, 08:43 PM
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 793
Oil was $38.74/barrel (today $93.68).
National Avg price for a gal of gas that week: $1.83 (today $3.65)
06-20-2011, 08:44 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: maddoggy dog
Posts: 1,026
I agree, what we have now is a very inconsistent product. Most are good, some are great, and some REALLY suck!!
06-20-2011, 08:44 PM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Carl
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