Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
06-12-2011, 10:34 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: DAL FO
Posts: 2,165
I had a guy coming from the 320 have a horrible time with the 737. The instructor even went so far as to call Minne to talk with the 320 instuctors to get some help for this guy.
Luckily for me, I had already been on the airplane a few years earlier and only needed a refresher. The guy wasn't weak, he just wasn't getting the differences. Had a hell of a time. I even took the time to write it up. I never write anything up. The 320 guys need an FMS class added to the syllabus. It's just too different.
Luckily for me, I had already been on the airplane a few years earlier and only needed a refresher. The guy wasn't weak, he just wasn't getting the differences. Had a hell of a time. I even took the time to write it up. I never write anything up. The 320 guys need an FMS class added to the syllabus. It's just too different.
Overall though I think the issue is not with the 737 but with the fact that airbus just does things differently. Having flown several other fms airplanes, the 320 is the only one that stands out as being substantially different. Managed flight is a great thing on the bus once you get used to it, but it's challenging to break out of that mindset when transitioning back to a "normal" jet. Not difficult, just challenging.
I really can't see it being a big enough deal though to be the cause of a training issue. The two airplanes do roughly the same type of flying and operate very similar profiles-with just two very different ways of skinning the cat.
I haven't seen the differences memo, but it sounds like a great idea. Maybe I should go look it up.
06-12-2011, 10:34 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Bar;
I think that sending your instructors out in an extra 300 is cool, but the Extra flies in unusual attitudes all the time and is made to do that, recover, re-enter, etc. all day long.
Some airliners are so pathetically aerodynamic - outside the normal envelope - they need strakes, and mods just to make them pass faa certification - forget fly upside down for a sortie.
I agree, as a minimum standard of private pilot certification, spins are very important...I dont know why they deleted them. How do you get out of a spin if all you have done is been briefed on it?
I think that sending your instructors out in an extra 300 is cool, but the Extra flies in unusual attitudes all the time and is made to do that, recover, re-enter, etc. all day long.
Some airliners are so pathetically aerodynamic - outside the normal envelope - they need strakes, and mods just to make them pass faa certification - forget fly upside down for a sortie.
I agree, as a minimum standard of private pilot certification, spins are very important...I dont know why they deleted them. How do you get out of a spin if all you have done is been briefed on it?
That's kind of the point I was making with the Compass flow up guys who where having trouble on the older generation Delta equipment.
All this is making me wonder if the transition the other way (Boeing to Bus) is equally "different."
One point, with all this talk of stalls and spins is, in the civilian world spins just are not taught any more. Given the number of commercial pilots who have departed controlled flight recently it would appear a must that some time in a pilot's training they spin a few airplanes. One regional sent their IP's out to spend a few hours in an Extra 300 before teaching upset recovery training. IMHO, that was an excellent idea (and fun too).
All this is making me wonder if the transition the other way (Boeing to Bus) is equally "different."
One point, with all this talk of stalls and spins is, in the civilian world spins just are not taught any more. Given the number of commercial pilots who have departed controlled flight recently it would appear a must that some time in a pilot's training they spin a few airplanes. One regional sent their IP's out to spend a few hours in an Extra 300 before teaching upset recovery training. IMHO, that was an excellent idea (and fun too).
PUT THE GEAR OUT!
I say that because I had NASA Langley folks tell me that. One of them simply built the models for Langleys tunnels and he said to me that "I don't know how to fly an airplane but if you ever get into a spin, extend the gear. It's just what've I seen over and over."
Which is what happened when a cockpit team at Continental Express put a EMB-120 into a spin during climb out with passengers on board. I believe they had left in vertical speed mode in the climb till it stalled and spun. The FO through out the landing gear and it came out. Then they crash landed.
http://dms.ntsb.gov/aviation/Acciden...2011120000.pdf <<< lots of stuff about spins and again, improper stall recovery techniques. I think we ought to go back to approach stall recovery demos having narrow ATP tolerances.
FWIW. Also, you do spin training for your CFI and you teach spins when you're teaching someone to get a CFI. I've spun lots of Skyhawks but the recovery techniques, while albeit for the most part were let go and it'll come out, I found on occasion that it was possible to spin it where that wasn't the case. But for the most part when properly loaded to do spins the airplane didn't want to do without absurd and prolonged control inputs. Put people in the back and it'll spin much easier. eek. So whether military or civilian, most all of us have learned and taught spins in a Cessna.
Last edited by forgot to bid; 06-12-2011 at 11:09 AM.
06-12-2011, 11:09 AM
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Ok. Someone tell me if this passes the sniff test regarding PS end of rotation DH. Skeds says they can't book you on a flight if it's oversold. Then what's the point of PS? Also, they said they can only book PS for you for the number of legs that you were initially scheduled to DH. Didn't have time to try to book it myself. Anyone in the know please elaborate.
06-12-2011, 11:36 AM
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Space Shuttle PIC
Posts: 2,007
What is the word on early outs? Had a linecheck the other day, guy said there were more than expected so far, and that was before the announcement about Natco closing, and MSP 330 displacement bid.
06-12-2011, 11:58 AM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: C-17A
Posts: 56
I expect them to phase out the pilots through AE's, it is much cheaper for the company than to pay us the higher rate we can hold.
06-12-2011, 12:09 PM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
06-12-2011, 12:11 PM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
06-12-2011, 12:14 PM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
I suspect we will see a few more after the awards are posted. Looking at the 330 B in MSP, many of those pilots will probably just got to the 320A seats and that is where the waterfall may happen. If they want international, they will bid to commute. I know a few that live in the heartland that hare tickled pink to bid the 330 in atl. Suffice to say, bid what you want because the effects could be interesting.
06-12-2011, 12:24 PM
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 ATL
Posts: 3,506
Looking at the 330 B in MSP, many of those pilots will probably just got to the 320A seats and that is where the waterfall may happen. If they want international, they will bid to commute. I know a few that live in the heartland that hare tickled pink to bid the 330 in atl. Suffice to say, bid what you want because the effects could be interesting.
Those heartland boys better include a percentage in their bid or they could wind up commuting to reserve. Ouch.
06-12-2011, 12:51 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Flying the SEC
Posts: 2,350
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
