Check Essential

Following on the heels of our RAH surrender, its a disturbing trend we have going here when the ALPA guys are so ready to capitulate on scope issues and claim there's nothing we can legally do about outsourcing and subcontracting.

The notion that we can't force management to bargain about scope and job security because its a "permissive" topic and we can never strike over those issues is just plain dangerous. Its even more loony than saying that Republic Air is not an air carrier.

Here's the Supreme Court on the issue:

The type of "contracting out" involved in this case -- the replacement of employees in the existing bargaining unit with those of an independent contractor to do the same work under similar conditions of employment -- is a statutory subject of collective bargaining under § 8(d) of the Act.

We agree with the Court of Appeals that, on the facts of this case, the "contracting out" of the work previously performed by members of an existing bargaining unit is a subject about which the National Labor Relations Act requires employers and the representatives of their employees to bargain collectively.

http://supreme.justia.com/us/379/203/case.html

Timbo

Personally I think the 76 seat ship has sailed. I doubt if we (mainline DL) will ever be able to 'recapture' that flying. There is a limit per our contract to how many 76 seat RJ's can exist. So let's focus on defending that limit, and let's turn our attention to the NEXT threat, the much fabled 100 seater.

If we hold the line on 76 seats for DCC's, then obviously any 100 seater would have to be flown by mainline pilots. As much as many of you hate to admit it, DALPA was right when they said the 36 and 50 seat RJ's would eventually dissapear, over congestion and higher fuel prices helped. So where's the next logical step? 100 seater replaces 76. OK, Who flys it?

If the RJ guys want mainline jobs, they should be supporting mainline scope. If instead they want to spend the rest of their careers flying 76 seaters at DCC pay/benefits, then by all means, sue DALPA over our scope clause, if/when the 100 seater comes along.

And for you mainline guys, here's a no-kidding question that is sure to come up over the 100 seater, if/when it ever shows up. How much of a pay raise would it take for you to give away the 100 seater to the DCC's? If RA offered you a 30% pay raise tomorrow, and put some limit on the total number of 100 seaters allowed, would you let it go to the DCC's?

That is exactly the tactic used to get to where we are today, first it was the 50 seaters, then 76, next step, 100.

So, what's your selling point? 30% raise? 50%? 100%? Here's mine, I want a 100% raise for a couple years, (to get my last kid through college) and my $1.4 Million DB money returned to my 401K, and then I'll retire 10 years early, you can have my 777 left seat.

BTW, in all the previous contracts, all of which allowed more relaxation of our scope, I voted no... Now it's your turn.

forgot to bid

nuff said.

Pineapple Guy

Sorry, not true. Assuming you are referring to the 76 seat line, that was conceded in LOA 51, which passed MEMRAT.

Check Essential

Correct. I remember it well. The sales pitch was "RJs are saving Delta".

forgot to bid

Have we surrendered yet? Please tell me no.

Delta pilots have paid enough, raises and stagnant if not stronger scope is due.

Now who is our peers? I'd say Continental and Southwest are, both have better scope. We deserve their scope +1. I mean -1. As in -1 seat.

Timbo

Yeahbutt...69% of Delta Pilots keep voting Yes to more scope give-aways...until that changes, I expect more of the same. So I'll ask the same question as above, in reverse;

How much of a pay cut are you willing to give to the Company, to have all the 76 seat flying 'returned' to mainline??

That is the argument the company will use, so what's the answer, and what's our 'leverage' to get that flying back? Holding our breath and stamping our feet isn't going to work. Meanwhile, while we are focused on getting the lowest paying jobs back the company is signing more and more wide body JV's and International Code shares, replacing our Wide Body International flying. So, which jobs should we be fighting for?

FmrFreightDog

DC-9 instructor on the jumpseat yesterday said 5 being parked "real soon."

acl65pilot

May on the current generation of 76 seat jets, but who is to say some crazy manufacturer will not come up with a Next Gen 76 seat jet when they realize that the 100 seat segment will not be sold. The whole notion of fighting for all flying is a must. Sunset the current flying and bring it back in house as the CPA's expire. The protects against the unforeseen.

Again, of this generation. The economics will play out with all current generation aircraft, and our language does not currently protect against subsequent generations in the same seat segment. You could say economics are killing most current generation aircraft, ala 744.

Great idea but the trend needs to be reversed so that there is a tangible gain for them, not some chance at a maybe. Memories are short, and everyone is look at the last decade of blood, without realizing the economics behind it. We shall see where we are in a decade. Furthermore, the log jam at the majors needs to be freed for any true progress to be made. Sunset Clauses are a good insurance policy that given current economics, will mirror the companies current plans; aka, low cost to the pilot group.

Never. Same me one shame on you, shame me twice shame on me. We get what is coming if we fall for that again.

It should be simple, scope is not for sale. Delta pilots need to fly the small jets at market rates to get them back on property. Currently the 100 seat flying and the rates paid will fall along a linear line between the 76 seat jet and the 120 seat jets. The is no pilot benefit currently to off loading that flying to DCI. Of course moving debt is very important, and we as a union need to take the position, that we do not care how DAL structures their debt, rest assured we will be flying it. Our mission is simple, DAL pilots flying DAL and Skyteam passengers, leave the corporate shell games up to the execs.

UnusualAttitude

In case you have forgotten there was a chance for the DAL MEC to support recapturing a segment of the 76 seat flying with the resolution proposed to staple CP to the bottom of the seniority list. The DAL MEC voted against it and went as far as removing CP from the MEC saying that we had competing interests. They were only competing interests in the opinion of the DAL MEC and that is proven by the fact that 95% of CP pilots took the flow to DL when offered.

I don't think you will find a whole lot of regional guys that want to see this trend continue. Unfortunately, in most ways you guys control the careers of those that come behind you. The modern day B-scale and only you all can end it.

You hear mainline guys talk about RJ guys taking their jobs, well, mainline pilots weakening scope has taken the career potential from many RJ guys.