Denny Crane

I have to disagree with you. I do not think career expectations are in the form of money. Your career expectation at a regional is to make it to the left seat of 76 seat regional jet. My career expectation at a major is to reach the left seat of 747-400, 777, or 787. Money has nothing to do with our career expectations. It's a by product of the position/career expectation you have/can achieve at your airline.

I don't know that Southwest does have many applications from Delta pilots. How many do they have? I'm sure there are a few but I suspect not very many.

For what it's worth, I don't think you are being a jerk, I think your definition of career expectations is wrong.

Denny

forgot to bid

Let's, start over. What is it that you want to have happen? Mesabah merged with DAL on a DOH or relative seniority?

If that's the case let me be frank and say we don't want to merge with DCI carriers, we want scope to eliminate their use here and grow organically. I can't think of a reason why merging with ASA, Comair or any DCI makes sense other than CPZ and that's because they only have E-jets and because of the way they were set up by NWA. Any other DCI would not be beneficial imho.

As to seniority, look at DAL and Alaska. If we merged, how do you think they (arbitrators) would merge that? If we merged with SWA, how do you think they would merge that? And for good measure ASA?

What Denny said about pay is right, if we merged with SWA in 2004 and based the SLI on pay tables SWA would've been slaughtered. 2011, SWA would have the upper hand. But they don't base it on pay tables, which is where your $500/hr argument comes from, because pay can get cut. So can work rules. They seem to like networks, fleets and growth.

Mesabah

Didn't the bankruptcy lower your career expectations? What if you had a UPS type pay scale and the DC-9 was the only plane based in your domicile where your family lived? Would your expectation still be the 747, 777, and 787?

Carl Spackler

I just watched the movie Tombstone and heard the line that is your signature's quote. Well done sir...great quote!

Carl

forgot to bid

That would be getting into the nuances of all 12,000 pilots and somehow ensure that for the next 10, 20 or 30 years they don't change their mind on what aircraft they want to fly, never move, never get divorced and so on.

It's reasonable to assume their career expectation is to progress upwards and not camp out.

Mesabah

I posted a few pages back that when we were acquired by NWA, the XJ MEC wanted to file a PID to force a SLI. We got shot down by ALPA, since there was nothing good that could of come from that. Bucking said that ALPA was using us for bargaining credits. I say it's because a SLI would destroy the union.

Denny Crane

Bankruptcy did not lower my career expectations. It lowered my career earnings. I still expect to be a Captain on one of those aircraft if I want to. The domicile question is easy. Yes because I will have a seniority number capable of holding those aircraft if I want to. If I decide I want to commute then I will commute and fly one of those aircraft. It doesn't mean I will but I have the ability to do so.

FTB said it better than I did.

Denny

Carl Spackler

What's bolded above is SUCH a critical point and provides us a shot at salvation. Since the 1974 court case that sets the precedent regarding Scope, management has NO LEGAL ALTERNATIVE if we disagree to any changes in Section 1. The NMB is legally obliged to remove any Section 1 changes from the bargaining table if WE just say no. Everything else is hard negotiations, but with Section 1 changes, we only have to say no. This puts us in the driver's seat because economics and traffic congestion is rapidly killing 50 seaters and will soon kill off 76 seaters. Management's ONLY HOPE is that we ALLOW higher than 76 seat jets. If we simply don't, management is stuck with a Section 1 that is meaningless...unlimited use of jets that will do nothing but lose them money.

If we hold the line on Scope right here ladies and gentlemen, time and economics will make our current Section 1 weaknesses irrelevant. Now whether ALPA/DALPA will grieve any blatant violations of our Scope, the obvious answer there is no. But at least we can control whether we keep ALPA. We lose all options if we give one more inch on Scope.

Carl

Carl Spackler

That is exactly what he and the other RJ folks are hoping for. They've almost surely interviewed at the majors, and for whatever reason, they didn't get on. This would be the back-door entrance.

Economics and congestion makes our current Section 1 weaknesses a dead issue if we just hold the line right here. Then as economics kill off the 76 seaters, we can grow Delta organically...with pilots that we choose. THAT'S the biggest fear of people like Mesabah. Their only hope is to scare major pilots into a belief that merging with RJ carriers is the way to ensure our jobs won't be outsourced...which is obviously incorrect.

Carl

Carl Spackler

Happy Memorial Day.

God bless all that have fallen in the past...and prayers that we never lose another one.

Carl