Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-25-2011, 07:10 PM
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05-25-2011, 07:15 PM
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Honestly, I don't think that it'll go to arbitration. Arbitration still leaves too many unknowns for the group as a whole like 717 pay rates, bidding between aircraft, seniority issues with aircraft that are retired/sold/etc.
Upgrades are going pretty well at the moment. July shows plus 60 captain slots. The stagnation is pretty much over with the airplanes that are being delivered to SWA (both SWA orders and AirTrans orders going to SWA operations). School house is busy hiring another 180 plus guys to be on the line by this fall.
And yes, I do appreciate the fact that you Delta guys are concerned for me, but I seriously doubt that I'd be moved back to the right seat post-agreement unless we merge with super-cool major airlines like Delta that have all of your benefits on them (like ALPA policy). Maybe we could just all organize under SWAPA so that management would have to recognize scope protection.
Oh my, it seems I've worn out my welcome. Please invoke my name over here occasionally so that I feel invited in again.
Upgrades are going pretty well at the moment. July shows plus 60 captain slots. The stagnation is pretty much over with the airplanes that are being delivered to SWA (both SWA orders and AirTrans orders going to SWA operations). School house is busy hiring another 180 plus guys to be on the line by this fall.
And yes, I do appreciate the fact that you Delta guys are concerned for me, but I seriously doubt that I'd be moved back to the right seat post-agreement unless we merge with super-cool major airlines like Delta that have all of your benefits on them (like ALPA policy). Maybe we could just all organize under SWAPA so that management would have to recognize scope protection.
Oh my, it seems I've worn out my welcome. Please invoke my name over here occasionally so that I feel invited in again.
Um Jockey,
You honestly don't think that it will go to arbitration?
This is where you unquestionably display a lack of being able to put yourself into someone else's shoes.
If you were an Air Tran SLI negotiator, would you want to make any concession beyond relative seniority, only to have your entire pilot group blame you for them not getting their vacation, their weekends off, their great layover in AUA, or their base at home in LAS, for your entire career?
Even though you wish they would concede and bypass arbitration, it's not happening, my friend. Their negotiators would rather lay all the blame at the foot of the arbitrator -- so do yours.
Here's a bit of advice: Sit back,relax, enjoy the ride, don't take it so personal, and when you get real queasy, research previous arbitrator rulings and try to find awards that merged seniority lists based on W2 earnings and expectations.
Make sure you have a lot of time and a really powerful search engine for the last one.
You honestly don't think that it will go to arbitration?
This is where you unquestionably display a lack of being able to put yourself into someone else's shoes.
If you were an Air Tran SLI negotiator, would you want to make any concession beyond relative seniority, only to have your entire pilot group blame you for them not getting their vacation, their weekends off, their great layover in AUA, or their base at home in LAS, for your entire career?
Even though you wish they would concede and bypass arbitration, it's not happening, my friend. Their negotiators would rather lay all the blame at the foot of the arbitrator -- so do yours.
Here's a bit of advice: Sit back,relax, enjoy the ride, don't take it so personal, and when you get real queasy, research previous arbitrator rulings and try to find awards that merged seniority lists based on W2 earnings and expectations.
Make sure you have a lot of time and a really powerful search engine for the last one.
But if there is enough push from a few at ATI to prevent an imbalance, or maybe even a push from ALPA national to save face, then I have to agree this is going to arbitration. It's the simplest cop out for ALPA National and AirTran's ALPA.
Where does it go in arbitration, that's a good question. Many would like to have said "NWA was about to implode until Delta rescued them", but that's not any more true than AAI is about to implode until SWA rescued them which we know isn't the case.
What you see here in both mergers is an attempt to grow massively at a far lower cost than organic expansion. In DAL/NWA it was apples to apples, in SWA/AAI it's apples to apples. The only difference is SWA's contract far exceeds AAIs but I don't see that as having anything more than a marginal benefit to SWA pilots.
In the end, arbitrator and my bet is DOH.
I say that because while DAL/NWA had to mitigate fleet types, recent growth, potential fleet retirements, excessive early outs, chapter 11 bankruptcies, and so on, SWA/AAI fly the same type of aircraft 73N=73N and 735=717 with none of the other mitigating issues.
05-25-2011, 07:38 PM
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Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
When I talked to one of the merger guys he mentioned that, forgive my lack of insider lingo here, plug-n-play thing on the SLI was overused by the arbitrators. Which screwed a bunch of pilots. DALPA recommended no more than a few times, maybe a dozen or so, and they used it like 100 times.
PG, Alfa, Sailing, Slow... you know... "PASS" might know more about that subject.
PG, Alfa, Sailing, Slow... you know... "PASS" might know more about that subject.
Are you asking about the DAL/NWA merger? If so, the arbitrators called it the "pullout/plug-in" method.
No. Seriously. That's what they called it.
05-25-2011, 07:44 PM
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Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,530
What was a bit more "outsourcing interesting," I was sitting two rows behind a couple of well dressed, older business guys and overheard/witnessed the following on same ASA flight:
"That was ummmm.....interesting. No running water in the sink. Can I wipe my hands on you? (to his buddy/seat mate)"
Cart moves aft
"Hey, let's have a drink."
"Would you like anything to drink?"
"Yes please. How about a Jack and Coke?"
"We don't have any."
"How about Scotch?"
"We're all out."
"OK, do you have any Bourbon?"
"No"
"OK, do you have anything that's brown?"
"No. They didn't give us any for the flight."
"Ok, then how about gin?"
"I have vodka."
"Great (whew). Two V and Ts."
"Here you go, that's $14."
"Here you are." (offering money).
"Sorry, cash only. We don't take credit cards."
"OK, here's a $20.
Small cabin of pax starting to eaves-drop.
"I don't have any change. They only give us $10 in change and the guy in the first row already took my change."
"OK, how about we take 3 vodkas and call it even?"
"That's $21."
Big laugh out of guy 4 rows back.
"All I have is $20 and a couple of breath mints."
Bunch of people laugh.
"I'm very sorry, sir."
"That's OK, dear. We'll just wait until we get home." Give Vs back.
Moves back 2 rows, guy says
"Can I get some change?"
Plane erupts in laughter. FA says
"You just made my day."
05-25-2011, 07:46 PM
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Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
.... wha... wait? What are you guys talking about?
oh, good, we're all on the same page evidently.
Last edited by forgot to bid; 05-25-2011 at 08:09 PM.
05-25-2011, 07:51 PM
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Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
<===== (That's really me.)
05-25-2011, 07:53 PM
Inventory survival kit ..
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Seeking no jacket required rotations
Posts: 1,069
For all you Mac/Apple users:
New version of malware is now spreading for Macs. Apple finally acknowledged the malware problem. Read article linked for more info.
New Mac Defender malware variant drops admin password requirement
New version of malware is now spreading for Macs. Apple finally acknowledged the malware problem. Read article linked for more info.
New Mac Defender malware variant drops admin password requirement
05-25-2011, 07:53 PM
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
So my disclaimer. If a fisherman picks his bait by the type of fish he wants to catch, then women should realize that you cannot complain about the type of guys you attract if the bait you used advertised yourself as a commodity.
This is a rant designed to sidetrack and place the blame squarely on someone else.
05-25-2011, 07:57 PM
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Wish I had.
What was a bit more "outsourcing interesting," I was sitting two rows behind a couple of well dressed, older business guys and overheard/witnessed the following on same ASA flight:
"That was ummmm.....interesting. No running water in the sink. Can I wipe my hands on you? (to his buddy/seat mate)"
Cart moves aft
"Hey, let's have a drink."
"Would you like anything to drink?"
"Yes please. How about a Jack and Coke?"
"We don't have any."
"How about Scotch?"
"We're all out."
"OK, do you have any Bourbon?"
"No"
"OK, do you have anything that's brown?"
"No. They didn't give us any for the flight."
"Ok, then how about gin?"
"I have vodka."
"Great (whew). Two V and Ts."
"Here you go, that's $14."
"Here you are." (offering money).
"Sorry, cash only. We don't take credit cards."
"OK, here's a $20.
Small cabin of pax starting to eaves-drop.
"I don't have any change. They only give us $10 in change and the guy in the first row already took my change."
"OK, how about we take 3 vodkas and call it even?"
"That's $21."
Big laugh out of guy 4 rows back.
"All I have is $20 and a couple of breath mints."
Bunch of people laugh.
"I'm very sorry, sir."
"That's OK, dear. We'll just wait until we get home." Give Vs back.
Moves back 2 rows, guy says
"Can I get some change?"
Plane erupts in laughter. FA says
"You just made my day."
What was a bit more "outsourcing interesting," I was sitting two rows behind a couple of well dressed, older business guys and overheard/witnessed the following on same ASA flight:
"That was ummmm.....interesting. No running water in the sink. Can I wipe my hands on you? (to his buddy/seat mate)"
Cart moves aft
"Hey, let's have a drink."
"Would you like anything to drink?"
"Yes please. How about a Jack and Coke?"
"We don't have any."
"How about Scotch?"
"We're all out."
"OK, do you have any Bourbon?"
"No"
"OK, do you have anything that's brown?"
"No. They didn't give us any for the flight."
"Ok, then how about gin?"
"I have vodka."
"Great (whew). Two V and Ts."
"Here you go, that's $14."
"Here you are." (offering money).
"Sorry, cash only. We don't take credit cards."
"OK, here's a $20.
Small cabin of pax starting to eaves-drop.
"I don't have any change. They only give us $10 in change and the guy in the first row already took my change."
"OK, how about we take 3 vodkas and call it even?"
"That's $21."
Big laugh out of guy 4 rows back.
"All I have is $20 and a couple of breath mints."
Bunch of people laugh.
"I'm very sorry, sir."
"That's OK, dear. We'll just wait until we get home." Give Vs back.
Moves back 2 rows, guy says
"Can I get some change?"
Plane erupts in laughter. FA says
"You just made my day."
05-25-2011, 08:04 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: 330 FO
Posts: 584
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