Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-12-2011, 02:48 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,014
NewK, tip of the hat in your direction. Good effort at taking the trophy from Qantas.
05-12-2011, 02:52 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,014
Just "ax'kin"
05-12-2011, 02:53 PM
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
05-12-2011, 03:04 PM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
I guess some of you guys just don't get it, this should be a 'no brainer'. We didn't get any of the NWA targeted pension $. This was an oversight that occurred during the PWA / merger saga. I can't believe you guys are saying we just have to "suck it up" and it's ok for a 2007 hire to get less DC contribution than a 2011 new hire. This was not done intentionally by ALPA but rather an oversight in the PWA. We were just kind of forgotten about.
It makes me realize how many of my brothers will vote a certain way (like sell out scope) and just say to the less fortunate junior guys - "suck it up, I've had to do it in my career too".
That my brothers is the philosophy that has tarnished this profession and made our union weak.
It makes me realize how many of my brothers will vote a certain way (like sell out scope) and just say to the less fortunate junior guys - "suck it up, I've had to do it in my career too".
That my brothers is the philosophy that has tarnished this profession and made our union weak.
Do we pass a resolution that targets me receiving the senior FNW pilots frozen DB?
Do we pass a resolution that requires any pilot receiving PBGC money to reduce his monthly payrate by an equal amount - or mandates his retirement?
I'm just asking as a fly in the vaseline...Not because I dont agree with the resolution.
05-12-2011, 03:09 PM
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Johnso,
First, let me say that I do think that you should be getting the same DC contribution. That's not the point though.
You are enduring this with your fellow NW hires of the same period as I did with my fellow B-scalers. I guess I don't understand your point. I made less last year as a 7ER Capt. than I did as a MD 11 FO in 1998. We've all taken a shot on the chin because of bankruptcy. It sucks!!
I'm assuming, in your last sentence, that you mean you make less in your DC contribution than a new hire.
Again Johnso, I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying that's just the way it is. Most likely this group of guys is just going to have to suck it up and take it on chin like we all did with the B scale. I just don't see anything getting resolved with this prior to Jan. 2012 when everyone will have the same contribution. Trying to go back and recover this contribution from past years ain't gonna happen. (My fatalist view)
Denny
First, let me say that I do think that you should be getting the same DC contribution. That's not the point though.
You are enduring this with your fellow NW hires of the same period as I did with my fellow B-scalers. I guess I don't understand your point. I made less last year as a 7ER Capt. than I did as a MD 11 FO in 1998. We've all taken a shot on the chin because of bankruptcy. It sucks!!
I'm assuming, in your last sentence, that you mean you make less in your DC contribution than a new hire.
Again Johnso, I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying that's just the way it is. Most likely this group of guys is just going to have to suck it up and take it on chin like we all did with the B scale. I just don't see anything getting resolved with this prior to Jan. 2012 when everyone will have the same contribution. Trying to go back and recover this contribution from past years ain't gonna happen. (My fatalist view)
Denny
Denny,
It just bums me out when fellow pilots preach unity, but shrug things like lesser DC contributions & B scales. If we are going to be unified, we all need to be on the same playing field. It just doesn't seem like that will happen though. Bankruptcy really farked so many people by making our pilot groups so different.
I don't believe that you always have to give something to get something. I think our current union national president has a lot of guys believing that one always has to give something to get something. It took a fight to get him to ask the company to get the pay system changed, & turns out it cost us nothing. The company agreed to change it no problem.
I guess what I'm trying to say is overall I'm happy. It's really not even the money, it's the principle. We got thrown under the bus, & it stinks.
05-12-2011, 03:26 PM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: going to Boeing Dog...
Posts: 49
As one of the 200 or so who’s getting less DC than everyone else… It’s not right; it’s not fair. It was something that fell through the crack, and I guess it was too late to fix it when they noticed that error. So, it wasn’t like they screw us on purpose. When I heard that we’d merge, I fully expected that I’d be on the street. I didn’t expect that I was ganna get equity shares. Life turned out OK. So, we have this glitch that pays us a bit less, but we’ll definitely get that fixed in 2012. Until then, I’ll suck it up for the unity. I think the unity thing start with ALL of us saying little bit less of “me, me, me.” JMHO
05-12-2011, 03:42 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,462
OK - here we go, one more time.
That is simply wrong. Trust me, this was not an oversight. ALL NWA pilots entered the merger with the DC contribution rate in place prior to the merger, including you guys.
I agree completely with you here, and disagree with the OP of this comment.
BINGO! You got the merger equity shares by agreeing to the PWA and SLI. And a part of that comprehensive package was the flat DC and a nice pay raise.
No - I've never sued the union and never will. Not management either.
That was part of the PWA, and yes, I think it's fair. Because the NWA guys got an hourly rate pay raise with the merger, and DAL guys did not, as your rates were harmonized on Day 1 with the DAL rates. See the post below from sailingfun for some historical perspective on previous mergers.
You are being treated EXACTLY as EVERY other former NWA pilot is being treated. EVERY NWA pilot currently "receives" 8% DC. For some, it goes into the targeting matrix and is reallocated under that formula; for you guys, it is paid directly to you. EVERY NWA guy. Every one. Not one is getting more than that; but the entire NWA group will be harmonized under the terms of the PWA on 12/31/12. What you are asking is for 200 NWA guys to get harmonized earlier than ALL of your fellow NWA pilots.
As I told Ed, those merger equity shares were in the same contract as your DC rates. It was all one big package. ALPA tried to get harmonization of pay AND DC on Day 1. They were unsuccessful. YOUR MEC made the choice to harmonize pay, and let DC (for ALL NWA pilots) harmonize on 12/31/12. That was their decision.
Banana, who is telling you this? It is a complete lie. This did NOT "fall through the crack". It was not "an error".
And finally, I leave you with this historically accurate quote from sailingfun, who says it better than I could:
It makes me realize how many of my brothers will vote a certain way (like sell out scope) and just say to the less fortunate junior guys - "suck it up, I've had to do it in my career too".
That my brothers is the philosophy that has tarnished this profession and made our union weak.
That my brothers is the philosophy that has tarnished this profession and made our union weak.
Yes, I get 3% less than a new hire. I don't see what the merger equity shares have to do with the issue. I received those shares for agreeing to the PWA and SLI. A new hire knows the situation when being hired and can choose to decline the job offer if he/she doesn't like the contract.
BINGO! You got the merger equity shares by agreeing to the PWA and SLI. And a part of that comprehensive package was the flat DC and a nice pay raise.
No - I've never sued the union and never will. Not management either.
That was part of the PWA, and yes, I think it's fair. Because the NWA guys got an hourly rate pay raise with the merger, and DAL guys did not, as your rates were harmonized on Day 1 with the DAL rates. See the post below from sailingfun for some historical perspective on previous mergers.
You are being treated EXACTLY as EVERY other former NWA pilot is being treated. EVERY NWA pilot currently "receives" 8% DC. For some, it goes into the targeting matrix and is reallocated under that formula; for you guys, it is paid directly to you. EVERY NWA guy. Every one. Not one is getting more than that; but the entire NWA group will be harmonized under the terms of the PWA on 12/31/12. What you are asking is for 200 NWA guys to get harmonized earlier than ALL of your fellow NWA pilots.
As I told Ed, those merger equity shares were in the same contract as your DC rates. It was all one big package. ALPA tried to get harmonization of pay AND DC on Day 1. They were unsuccessful. YOUR MEC made the choice to harmonize pay, and let DC (for ALL NWA pilots) harmonize on 12/31/12. That was their decision.
And finally, I leave you with this historically accurate quote from sailingfun, who says it better than I could:
The NWA union decided how to hand out that money. Dalpa negotiated a agreement where the company would provide you full funding over most of your career. The fact that your prior union did not feel its a priority is something for another discussion. I simply explained the facts of why there was not immediate pay parity on the DC plan. The fact is the former NWA pilot group will receive more cash toward retirement funding then the former Delta pilots.
This was actually Delta's first merger where there was immediate parity on pay. In the prior mergers there was a 3 year phase on on pay rates. Man would you be upset if that were the case!!!!
This was actually Delta's first merger where there was immediate parity on pay. In the prior mergers there was a 3 year phase on on pay rates. Man would you be upset if that were the case!!!!
Last edited by Pineapple Guy; 05-12-2011 at 10:22 PM.
05-12-2011, 05:23 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 973
Ummm no....every former NWA pilot does NOT recieve 11% DC.. I think mine is 2% or so.
05-12-2011, 05:55 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
05-12-2011, 05:55 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 264
OK - here we go, one more time.
That is simply wrong. Trust me, this was not an oversight. ALL NWA pilots entered the merger with the DC contribution rate in place prior to the merger, including you guys.
I agree completely with you here, and disagree with the OP of this comment.
BINGO! You got the merger equity shares by agreeing to the PWA and SLI. And a part of that comprehensive package was the flat DC and a nice pay raise.
No - I've never sued the union and never will. Not management either.
That was part of the PWA, and yes, I think it's fair. Because the NWA guys got an hourly rate pay raise with the merger, and DAL guys did not, as your rates were harmonized on Day 1 with the DAL rates. See the post below from sailingfun for some historical perspective on previous mergers.
You are being treated EXACTLY as EVERY other former NWA pilot is being treated. EVERY NWA pilot currently "receives" 11% DC. For some, it goes into the targeting matrix and is reallocated under that formula; for you guys, it is paid directly to you. EVERY NWA guy. Every one. Not one is getting more than that; but the entire NWA group will be harmonized under the terms of the PWA on 12/31/12. What you are asking is for 200 NWA guys to get harmonized earlier than ALL of your fellow NWA pilots.
As I told Ed, those merger equity shares were in the same contract as your DC rates. It was all one big package. ALPA tried to get harmonization of pay AND DC on Day 1. They were unsuccessful. YOUR MEC made the choice to harmonize pay, and let DC (for ALL NWA pilots) harmonize on 12/31/12. That was their decision.
Banana, who is telling you this? It is a complete lie. This did NOT "fall through the crack". It was not "an error".
And finally, I leave you with this historically accurate quote from sailingfun, who says it better than I could:
That is simply wrong. Trust me, this was not an oversight. ALL NWA pilots entered the merger with the DC contribution rate in place prior to the merger, including you guys.
I agree completely with you here, and disagree with the OP of this comment.
BINGO! You got the merger equity shares by agreeing to the PWA and SLI. And a part of that comprehensive package was the flat DC and a nice pay raise.
No - I've never sued the union and never will. Not management either.
That was part of the PWA, and yes, I think it's fair. Because the NWA guys got an hourly rate pay raise with the merger, and DAL guys did not, as your rates were harmonized on Day 1 with the DAL rates. See the post below from sailingfun for some historical perspective on previous mergers.
You are being treated EXACTLY as EVERY other former NWA pilot is being treated. EVERY NWA pilot currently "receives" 11% DC. For some, it goes into the targeting matrix and is reallocated under that formula; for you guys, it is paid directly to you. EVERY NWA guy. Every one. Not one is getting more than that; but the entire NWA group will be harmonized under the terms of the PWA on 12/31/12. What you are asking is for 200 NWA guys to get harmonized earlier than ALL of your fellow NWA pilots.
As I told Ed, those merger equity shares were in the same contract as your DC rates. It was all one big package. ALPA tried to get harmonization of pay AND DC on Day 1. They were unsuccessful. YOUR MEC made the choice to harmonize pay, and let DC (for ALL NWA pilots) harmonize on 12/31/12. That was their decision.
Banana, who is telling you this? It is a complete lie. This did NOT "fall through the crack". It was not "an error".
And finally, I leave you with this historically accurate quote from sailingfun, who says it better than I could:
2. Most of the 200 guys were on probation and didn't get to vote on the pwa.
3. I do not get 11% DC contribution at this time "like every other nwa guy". This is the point you seem to be missing. I also do not partake in the nwa pension targeting.
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