Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
04-26-2011, 06:20 AM
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Obviously special circumstances will apply. I feel for the parent of the special needs child.
However I would say both of those are a minority for our over 60 crowd. I don't keep track but between the jump seat and the guys I have flown with that are over 60, a dozen or more, only 1 guy was staying for that type of reason. The others were staying because they could.
When it comes down to it the law is 65. As we go further along this road those of us without pensions will be getting towards that age and I will guess fewer will go at 60 then do now.
However I would say both of those are a minority for our over 60 crowd. I don't keep track but between the jump seat and the guys I have flown with that are over 60, a dozen or more, only 1 guy was staying for that type of reason. The others were staying because they could.
When it comes down to it the law is 65. As we go further along this road those of us without pensions will be getting towards that age and I will guess fewer will go at 60 then do now.
04-26-2011, 06:20 AM
Back on TDY
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Posts: 12,487
Which is why I said the MEC will have tough decisions. The number of people that participate in the DALPA forum, here, and other forums is probably less than 1/2 of 1% of the pilot group. The MEC can pander to that 1/2% because they hate being called names by these forum people or they can take a leadership stand and respond to the needs of those 99 1/2% that don't visit the forums.
I have seen it before when LEC reps let these loud mouths wrap them around their fingers and respond to their constant harping. In order to find out what the rest of the pilots think, they have to get out into the lounges and seek out their pilots and use the Wilson polling to get the bigger picture. It takes a lot of work but in the end you will produce better results than listening to those few. As I said before, all of these crazy theories were tested just a few years ago and they all failed. At Delta, we avoided those traps and produced the best results amongst our peer groups. Sometimes you have to have a complete failure before you can really succeed. Maybe that's where we are now. It depends upon the leadership qualities of the MEC.
I have seen it before when LEC reps let these loud mouths wrap them around their fingers and respond to their constant harping. In order to find out what the rest of the pilots think, they have to get out into the lounges and seek out their pilots and use the Wilson polling to get the bigger picture. It takes a lot of work but in the end you will produce better results than listening to those few. As I said before, all of these crazy theories were tested just a few years ago and they all failed. At Delta, we avoided those traps and produced the best results amongst our peer groups. Sometimes you have to have a complete failure before you can really succeed. Maybe that's where we are now. It depends upon the leadership qualities of the MEC.
You're going to have to adapt to the internet alfa. Your days of isolating and shaming pilots who disagree are over. These forums allow interested pilots to hear opinions, read facts, then decide the difference via their own research. Not just from the info fed to us by carefully worded union scripts. Your name calling only feeds the opposition, and shows how shallow the support really is for ALPA.
Carl
04-26-2011, 07:04 AM
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04-26-2011, 07:04 AM
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Yo Slow. Chirp. Chirp Chirp.
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowplay
The management guy has time to post your responses in multiple threads, but he never answered my question about Hawaiian being a Delta peer either...the one where Hawaiian's creditors were paid 100 cents on the dollar in their sham bankruptcy. Delta pilots were the second largest creditor in our trip through the courts and got 60 cents on the dollar. The largest creditor only got 46 cents...
Slow, Mr. Comm chair &/or Mr. Teasurer:
Hawaiian Airlines. Did or did they not file for chapter 11 bankruptcy protection on March 21, 2003?
Hawaiian Airlines. Did or did they not receive court approval for its reorganization plan that included renegotiated contracts with its union work groups under an 1113 provision?
In regards to Hawaiian again. Did ALPA or did ALPA not negotiate a TA that was voted down by the pilots by a 55 to 45 margin causing Hawaiian to then threaten to return to the court to obtain a contract?
Did the Hawaiian pilots, or did they not, then approve their second TA that contained a much better deal and was negotiated, rather than concieved by the judge, through the same 1113 process and code Delta pilots were working with in BK court?
And finally, to your often repeated claim that Hawaiian was involved in a "sham" bankruptcy, and that fact must be true because their creditors received 100%on their claims:
Multiple parties were bidding on Hawaiian as they were set to emerge from court reorganization. The bidding war per se was what enabled theose creditors to obtain that kind of return, not the "sham" bankruptcy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowplay
The management guy has time to post your responses in multiple threads, but he never answered my question about Hawaiian being a Delta peer either...the one where Hawaiian's creditors were paid 100 cents on the dollar in their sham bankruptcy. Delta pilots were the second largest creditor in our trip through the courts and got 60 cents on the dollar. The largest creditor only got 46 cents...
Slow, Mr. Comm chair &/or Mr. Teasurer:
Hawaiian Airlines. Did or did they not file for chapter 11 bankruptcy protection on March 21, 2003?
Hawaiian Airlines. Did or did they not receive court approval for its reorganization plan that included renegotiated contracts with its union work groups under an 1113 provision?
In regards to Hawaiian again. Did ALPA or did ALPA not negotiate a TA that was voted down by the pilots by a 55 to 45 margin causing Hawaiian to then threaten to return to the court to obtain a contract?
Did the Hawaiian pilots, or did they not, then approve their second TA that contained a much better deal and was negotiated, rather than concieved by the judge, through the same 1113 process and code Delta pilots were working with in BK court?
And finally, to your often repeated claim that Hawaiian was involved in a "sham" bankruptcy, and that fact must be true because their creditors received 100%on their claims:
Multiple parties were bidding on Hawaiian as they were set to emerge from court reorganization. The bidding war per se was what enabled theose creditors to obtain that kind of return, not the "sham" bankruptcy.
Bullish in bankruptcy
With Hawaiian reporting this week the best first-quarter operating profit in its history and the 12th straight month in the black, prospective bidders were getting financial data from the trustee to polish their plans.
Adams and Carty got general financial data last week and have submitted a request for more specific data covering individual route profitability.
The process is similar to due diligence when a prospective purchaser of a business looks at the books. But when Adams heard this, he chuckled.
"There is one big difference from regular due diligence," he said. "They're the sellers, but we think their forecast is a lot more dismal than ours will be."
Hawaiian management has warned employees that current profitability could be a window of profits that closes later if mainland airlines enter Hawaiian's best-performing routes.
Carty doesn't think so. Mainland carriers not already flying to Hawaii tend not to have the right aircraft for the run.
"Southwest and America West couldn't fly here without changing their business model," he said.
Other bidders also said they think Hawaiian and Aloha have found a niche in their mainland routes that would be difficult for other airlines to exploit, especially in the next few years when they are likely to be concentrating on improving the profitability of the routes they already have.
With Hawaiian reporting this week the best first-quarter operating profit in its history and the 12th straight month in the black, prospective bidders were getting financial data from the trustee to polish their plans.
Adams and Carty got general financial data last week and have submitted a request for more specific data covering individual route profitability.
The process is similar to due diligence when a prospective purchaser of a business looks at the books. But when Adams heard this, he chuckled.
"There is one big difference from regular due diligence," he said. "They're the sellers, but we think their forecast is a lot more dismal than ours will be."
Hawaiian management has warned employees that current profitability could be a window of profits that closes later if mainland airlines enter Hawaiian's best-performing routes.
Carty doesn't think so. Mainland carriers not already flying to Hawaii tend not to have the right aircraft for the run.
"Southwest and America West couldn't fly here without changing their business model," he said.
Other bidders also said they think Hawaiian and Aloha have found a niche in their mainland routes that would be difficult for other airlines to exploit, especially in the next few years when they are likely to be concentrating on improving the profitability of the routes they already have.
04-26-2011, 07:08 AM
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04-26-2011, 07:13 AM
The Brown Dot +1
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04-26-2011, 07:14 AM
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Richard Anderson on today's conference call.
The most worrying thing about it is the distribution of the cuts.
Trans-Atlantic is slated to be chopped 8-10% this fall. That's pretty significant. The first analyst question hit the issue right on the head as far as who will bear those cuts.
Delta might be the one doing all the cutting while our alliance partners do none of it because thay have "labor considerations" and "social pressures" which prevent them from reducing capacity in any meaningful way that might impact jobs.
We need to watch this very carefully to make sure that Delta pilots don't absorb all the pain while AF/KLM/Alitalia use our joint venture as a jobs program.
The most worrying thing about it is the distribution of the cuts.
Trans-Atlantic is slated to be chopped 8-10% this fall. That's pretty significant. The first analyst question hit the issue right on the head as far as who will bear those cuts.
Delta might be the one doing all the cutting while our alliance partners do none of it because thay have "labor considerations" and "social pressures" which prevent them from reducing capacity in any meaningful way that might impact jobs.
We need to watch this very carefully to make sure that Delta pilots don't absorb all the pain while AF/KLM/Alitalia use our joint venture as a jobs program.
04-26-2011, 07:18 AM
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Position: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
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...so we have SWA, which is the kicker. They are clearly ahead, but everyone needs to understand that they fly a LOT of hours over there. Now their operation makes it easy to fly lots of hours in few days, but in the end, if Delta pilots flew what their pilots did we would have 800 or 900 extra pilots right now. Be careful what you wish for. I am a senior pilot so it doesn't affect me, but maybe if I was close to the bottom I would be wary of "being like Southwest" at least in all facets...
Had we more guys running the show with your big picture, I think we probably would have fewer than the 600+ RJs operating small jet service on behalf of Delta right now. That flying then would be at mainline; providing more jobs for Delta pilots probably beyond the 900 surplus positions.
I for one wouldn't mind one bit being more productive in return for a higher paycheck and more days off...
Cheers
George
04-26-2011, 07:19 AM
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Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,239
I just got back on the ER, two weeks waiting for OE so far. Now they are reducing the Atlantic again? Guess I'll be off the ER soon. After we lost Amman and Cairo (two best paying trips by the way) which will now be supported b AF and KLM out of Amsterdam and Paris, why can't we do those flights? We have 5th freedom rights don't we?
04-26-2011, 08:23 AM
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,619
Richard Anderson on today's conference call.
The most worrying thing about it is the distribution of the cuts.
Trans-Atlantic is slated to be chopped 8-10% this fall. That's pretty significant. The first analyst question hit the issue right on the head as far as who will bear those cuts.
Delta might be the one doing all the cutting while our alliance partners do none of it because thay have "labor considerations" and "social pressures" which prevent them from reducing capacity in any meaningful way that might impact jobs.
We need to watch this very carefully to make sure that Delta pilots don't absorb all the pain while AF/KLM/Alitalia use our joint venture as a jobs program.
The most worrying thing about it is the distribution of the cuts.
Trans-Atlantic is slated to be chopped 8-10% this fall. That's pretty significant. The first analyst question hit the issue right on the head as far as who will bear those cuts.
Delta might be the one doing all the cutting while our alliance partners do none of it because thay have "labor considerations" and "social pressures" which prevent them from reducing capacity in any meaningful way that might impact jobs.
We need to watch this very carefully to make sure that Delta pilots don't absorb all the pain while AF/KLM/Alitalia use our joint venture as a jobs program.
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