alfaromeo

Okay, I think you missed my point. First, if we had to furlough 900 pilots, who would get affected more, seniority #2000 or seniority #11,000. Poop rolls downhill in this industry and those at the bottom of the hill get the most poop. I was pointing this out not to endorse this result but to warn against it. In reality, if we took this path, my career would face a blip and the bottom 1000 at this airline would face a hurricane. I care about these people so I don't want that to happen even though I would mostly would stand above the fray. So get off your high horse, I am thinking about those pilots.

By the way, loose is when something is not tight, lose is when you misplace something. I don't want to be the grammar police, but come on.

alfaromeo

Carl, you are just flat out wrong, once again. Sorry, but your facile theories do not match reality. I have to say, you do get an "A" for creative writing, but for actual real negotiations you, as usual, just make things up.

Look, don't believe me, why don't you read the letters that the new APA President is putting out to his pilots. He lays down the facts exactly as I said they are. Is he simply lying to his pilots?

The NMB's role is to ensure the continuity of the transportation system, look in the RLA it states it there explicitly. They act as mediators, often for many years, to try to force an agreement and avoid disruptions. The idea that the NMB stepped away because the APA had too many issues is ridiculous. Where you come up with this tripe is beyond me. Their job is to work through the issues, no matter how many there are until an agreement is reached.

The problem with the APA is that they are asking for $1,5 billion in contract improvements. Their company lost $1 billion last year. Anyone that owns or operates a business or ever has could tell you how that math works out. People who say, "well they can just raise ticket prices" should explain why AMR management didn't do that last year and not lose $1 billion. There is no path to agreement unless the APA makes some fundamental changes to their approach. The alternative is to wait until their airline is making billions in profits, which might occur a decade or so from now.

So, Carl, you either fail to learn your lesson or you just continue your "internet act" of gadfly. You don't understand negotiations, you don't understand the RLA, you don't understand the NMB, and in the absence of knowledge you fill in the gaps with fairy tale fantasies.

The APA board of directors is trying to change course, the APA President is trying to change course, the only one who thinks the ship is heading in the right direction is Carl. Of course Carl, a sideline barker, never has to explain to pilots why they have gone 4,5,6, or more years with no compensation increases. Carl can simply sit on the sidelines and throw bricks. Excellent work if you can get it.

forgot to bid

You're right. Without looking at the past, what-if's, or future wants, what will the market bear?

Well, thanks to Southwest we know an airline can easily bear the following and still be profitable...

• Scope: No regional jets. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch.
• Pay: On average $230,000 for Captains and $140,000 for First Officers flying 137 seat Boeing 737s on stage lengths probably very similiar to our 149 seat and 160 seat MD88/90s which with our ALV's is probably more like $140K for As and $87K for Bs,
• Days Off: The same pilots average 18 days off a month,
• Per Diem: (Domestic) per diem is $2.15/hour,
• Holiday Pay: 150%
• Profit Sharing: Averaged 8% over the last 5 years,
• 401K Matching: 9.3% thus not far from ours,
• Commuter Policy: 1 available flight whether on SWA or OAL,
• Trip Length: 80% are 3 days,
• Line Construction: Majority line holders have 17 days off and reserves 15/16 days off,
• Duty Day: Averages less than 9 hours.

source: http://library.constantcontact.com/d...me-Booklet.pdf

forgot to bid

Maybe you should stick around and learn a thing or two here?

CVG767A

Alfa, you've been spot on with your recent posts--

caddis

Obviously special circumstances will apply. I feel for the parent of the special needs child.

However I would say both of those are a minority for our over 60 crowd. I don't keep track but between the jump seat and the guys I have flown with that are over 60, a dozen or more, only 1 guy was staying for that type of reason. The others were staying because they could.

When it comes down to it the law is 65. As we go further along this road those of us without pensions will be getting towards that age and I will guess fewer will go at 60 then do now.

NERD

Is it just me, or has every airline that lost money is being bled by outsourced rjs?

Pineapple Guy

Now, that right there is funny, I don't care who you are.

Silver2Gold

Perhaps...........

And perhaps you should leave this forum occasionally and learn a thing or two outside of here.....

6,300 posts ?? Really??

alfaromeo

Which is why I said the MEC will have tough decisions. The number of people that participate in the DALPA forum, here, and other forums is probably less than 1/2 of 1% of the pilot group. The MEC can pander to that 1/2% because they hate being called names by these forum people or they can take a leadership stand and respond to the needs of those 99 1/2% that don't visit the forums.

I have seen it before when LEC reps let these loud mouths wrap them around their fingers and respond to their constant harping. In order to find out what the rest of the pilots think, they have to get out into the lounges and seek out their pilots and use the Wilson polling to get the bigger picture. It takes a lot of work but in the end you will produce better results than listening to those few. As I said before, all of these crazy theories were tested just a few years ago and they all failed. At Delta, we avoided those traps and produced the best results amongst our peer groups. Sometimes you have to have a complete failure before you can really succeed. Maybe that's where we are now. It depends upon the leadership qualities of the MEC.