Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp

With their work rules and scope we'd be making probably more. Funny how alfa mentioned how much more their pilots fly. Back to reality, they fly the same or less than we do and get paid a crapload more on rigs.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Absolutely correct. My hope is that CAPA sues the NMB (which is really suing the White House) over their obvious abuse of power. Congress gave workers the right to strike. That right is now being abrogated by a non-legislative entity at their discretion. A lawsuit would bring this out into the light. If Congress doesn't want us to have the right anymore, then they can remove the right. I'll take that chance. If they still DO want us to have that right, they can re-affirm it and take back the power that has been stolen by the White House.

Carl

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

The full view goatse returns. If we go back, we MUST get a better hotel. I swear I'm taking a mold kit next time and getting that damned place condemned.

Frankly, Manaus just is not worth what they pay us (not sure twice the pay would make any difference).

Manaus poses some very real health risks.

Originally Posted by alfaromeo

Here is the problem with your theory. It is not a theory; it has been put in practice by the APA over at American. Essentially, they took all of the forum advice and put it into practice. They regularly lambasted their management and opposed any move their management made to increase their revenue. Instead of doing an analysis of their industry and their company, they invented a new metric. They went back to some year in the 1980's and then added some made up inflation metric to the compensation from that year. They proclaimed that this was what a pilot was worth and set that as their contractual goal.

While certainly a worthy goal, the problem was that this goal was just made up with no regard for the market place they were operating in. What does a house cost? It's not what you bought it for, it's not what it was worth 5 years ago, it's not worth what you hope it's worth, it is worth what the market will bear. That is market economics.

You can try to convince me until the cows come home that we are "worth" some compensation level from some years past, but it's not me you have to convince. It's the NMB's opinion that matters. Remember, under the RLA our contract negotiations have no timeline, they have no set ending date, they literally can go on until we are all dead. They only timeline that can occur is when the NMB declares an impasse.

So after APA’s experiment of the entire forum plans let's examine the results. A couple of months ago, after four+ years of negotiating, the NMB told the APA that they were wasting their time and put them on indefinite hold. Just to put it into perspective, a similar result for us puts into April 2017. That's right 2017. It's not just that, it's that they have no path to get anything now. There really is no way forward for them. So if the Delta MEC is trying to find another way, it's not because people don't want more or deserve more, it's because they don't want to stand still for another 5 or 6 years and then come up with plan B.

You say that the JCBA is okay but not enough. Well how about zero, is that enough. CAL and UAL are in Section 6 negotiations along with their JCBA and they have returned zero so far. APA they are 0 for 4+ years now and it looks like at least another 2. LCC, they are 0 for 5 years and will probably get broken apart before they get another raise. So it makes 5% a year (including DC) look a lot better when you see all these other plans are returning zero.

So we have SWA, which is the kicker. They are clearly ahead, but everyone needs to understand that they fly a LOT of hours over there. Now their operation makes it easy to fly lots of hours in few days, but in the end, if Delta pilots flew what their pilots did we would have 800 or 900 extra pilots right now. Be careful what you wish for. I am a senior pilot so it doesn't affect me, but maybe if I was close to the bottom I would be wary of "being like Southwest" at least in all facets.


Maybe we just need to walk down the path of the APA for a while. We had all of these loony theories tested in the last round Chapter 11’s and they all failed, but apparently people have short memories. The American pilots are certainly fed up and chose a different path. Maybe we just need to flail around for several years and eventually the forum theories will be shown once again to be based on fantasy and not reality. The MEC will have a tough choice soon; pander to the loudest voices on the webboards or get money now. They can’t do both.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Absolutely correct. My hope is that CAPA sues the NMB (which is really suing the White House) over their obvious abuse of power. Congress gave workers the right to strike. That right is now being abrogated by a non-legislative entity at their discretion. A lawsuit would bring this out into the light. If Congress doesn't want us to have the right anymore, then they can remove the right. I'll take that chance. If they still DO want us to have that right, they can re-affirm it and take back the power that has been stolen by the White House.

Carl

Originally Posted by alfaromeo

Be careful what you wish for. I am a senior pilot so it doesn't affect me, but maybe if I was close to the bottom I would be wary of "being like Southwest" at least in all facets.

Originally Posted by Dash8widget

REALLY? Loosing 800-900 pilots wouldn't affect you? Seniority is only relative - the number of pilots below you is just as important (maybe even more so) than the number of pilots above you. At one point last year, I was number two in my category. But since there were only a grand total of two of us in the category, that didn't really mean much. You should absolutely care weather we loose pilots or not.

Now, I understand what you are getting at - if we had WN's work rules, we would need fewer pilots, so be careful what we ask for - I get it. But when you make a comment like this, it really shows that your head is not in the right place. If we cut 800-900 pilots off the bottom of the list, YOU will be affected. I don't care how senior you are.

Originally Posted by TheManager

Oh, and Ragtop. Most excellent post.



Hey Slow and call sign ***** ****. I do not endorse DPA. I have been an ALPA member at several other airlines. I have seen effective and not so effective MEC's over the days.

I want to see DALPA reverse the course they are on and make the changes that will benefit the will and desire of Delta pilots. I will advocate for those changes, along with many other pilots that can be found both here and on the line.

Your fear, and those that make a living on ALPA and not line flying, should be the collective number of unsatisfied members and not the DPA.

It won't take many more received resolutions and tone deaf stone walling to energize these people. People like Ragtop. A well organized recall campaign can clean up DALPA much quicker than DPA can become our bargaining agent.

Sleep tight.

Originally Posted by Columbia

What if your first wife left and took your first house?