Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
04-25-2011, 04:49 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,242
I've been off a month waiting for OE. I have to tell you, its like being retired! LOVING IT! I still can't figure out why these 60+ guys are hanging around, especially the ones with pensions. Get the heck outta here! There are much better things in life than sitting in the left seat of a widebody until they have to haul you away in a long black Cadillac.
04-25-2011, 04:50 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Oh, and Ragtop. Most excellent post.
Hey Slow and call sign ***** ****. I do not endorse DPA. I have been an ALPA member at several other airlines. I have seen effective and not so effective MEC's over the days.
I want to see DALPA reverse the course they are on and make the changes that will benefit the will and desire of Delta pilots. I will advocate for those changes, along with many other pilots that can be found both here and on the line.
Your fear, and those that make a living on ALPA and not line flying, should be the collective number of unsatisfied members and not the DPA.
It won't take many more received resolutions and tone deaf stone walling to energize these people. People like Ragtop. A well organized recall campaign can clean up DALPA much quicker than DPA can become our bargaining agent.
Sleep tight.
Hey Slow and call sign ***** ****. I do not endorse DPA. I have been an ALPA member at several other airlines. I have seen effective and not so effective MEC's over the days.
I want to see DALPA reverse the course they are on and make the changes that will benefit the will and desire of Delta pilots. I will advocate for those changes, along with many other pilots that can be found both here and on the line.
Your fear, and those that make a living on ALPA and not line flying, should be the collective number of unsatisfied members and not the DPA.
It won't take many more received resolutions and tone deaf stone walling to energize these people. People like Ragtop. A well organized recall campaign can clean up DALPA much quicker than DPA can become our bargaining agent.
Sleep tight.
04-25-2011, 04:59 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: 320B
Posts: 278
I can tell you right now I would feel that way if I knew I was never coming back. This is a J O B and that is it. I had a couple of months off last year and it was outstanding.
If I was one of the fNWA guys with a $8000 a month or more pension I would be gone as soon as I could sign the paper work. Then again I am still with my first wife, first house, and don't live outside my means.
04-25-2011, 05:06 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 191
I can tell you right now I would feel that way if I knew I was never coming back. This is a J O B and that is it. I had a couple of months off last year and it was outstanding.
If I was one of the fNWA guys with a $8000 a month or more pension I would be gone as soon as I could sign the paper work. Then again I am still with my first wife, first house, and don't live outside my means.
If I was one of the fNWA guys with a $8000 a month or more pension I would be gone as soon as I could sign the paper work. Then again I am still with my first wife, first house, and don't live outside my means.
04-25-2011, 05:26 PM
Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,966
I believe getting our reserve guarantee to ALV-5 with a floor of 75 should be a priority in our next contract. I would also like to eliminate differences between reserve and regular credit calculations when on a rotation. Those have been a couple of my pet peeves, but I'm just one of 12,000 opinions.
87 hours is the total active pilot pay hour average for 2010. That includes greenslips, training, vacation, credit...anything that is calculated and paid through the hourly rate. When we cut back in 2009 the average was just under 82.
Interestingly, one of the guys whining the loudest about ALPA FPL on the other forum had a heck of a summer last year...195 hours in July alone as a domestic A320 guy. I'd love to get some of that!
87 hours is the total active pilot pay hour average for 2010. That includes greenslips, training, vacation, credit...anything that is calculated and paid through the hourly rate. When we cut back in 2009 the average was just under 82.
Interestingly, one of the guys whining the loudest about ALPA FPL on the other forum had a heck of a summer last year...195 hours in July alone as a domestic A320 guy. I'd love to get some of that!
Slow,
In my opinion overall DALPA has done pretty good for us in the post 911 era with one exception. Times were tough and we took it in the shorts - which I don't think we could have avoided for the most part - Kudos to DALPA for salvaging what they could during this dark period.
The one area were I see DALPA lacking is SCOPE. I give DALPA overall a B grade with a solid F on scope. It just does not appear to register with the same level of urgency to the DALPA guys as it does with at least the lower 2/3 of the seniority list. I am sure that most DALPA guys want to hold the line on SCOPE but that is not always apparent.
So the Republic fiasco is not a scope violation - fine, but then admit our SCOPE section sucks. SCOPE is supposed to protect us, the Delta Pilots, from other Pilots - not from "operating certificates."
How about DALPA saying something like "Hey guys, we hate to admit it but Republic is not in violation of our SCOPE clause, we will however make every effort to tighten up our SCOPE language in section 6."
Its almost as if DALPA does not want to fight for SCOPE. Or if they do, for some reason they are very timid about it. Could it be that this is what happens when ALPA National has almost as many if not more RJ drivers as mainline pilots?
Scoop
04-25-2011, 05:33 PM
Inventory survival kit ..
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Seeking no jacket required rotations
Posts: 1,069
Firefox and iCrew on Android
Okay, since we are on our own getting iCrew to work with Android.
Disclaimers:
1. You must already know how to change your Android Applications Settings to allow installation of non-Market Android applications.
2. This has been tested on, and only on, a Droid2 running Android 2.2(Froyo). I don't have a Android 3(Honeycomb) device to test.
3. If you are using an earlier version than 4b4 and it works, dont mess with it. If you are using 4b5 or 4 then this may help you with iCrew.
3. Use this information at your own risk.
This is how to install an older version of Firefox for Android that works with iCrew:
Optional step - Uninstall the current Firefox using Application Manager.
1. Use your phone web browser to go to "ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mobile/releases/4.0b4/android-r7/en-US/" WITHOUT THE QUOTATION MARKS
or you can try this link Index of /pub/mozilla.org/mobile/releases/4.0b4/android-r7/en-US
or type this link into your browser http://tinyurl.com/6zmf84y
Download (click on) fennec-4.0b4.en-US.eabi-arm.apk
2. Find the file on your phone where it was downloaded and click on it.
3. Install the App.
4. When done installing launch Firefox and test deltanet and iCrew.
I selected Firefox version 4b4 because 4b5 and the latest version gave me problems in iCrew.
Good Luck and use at your own risk.
I'll try and follow this up with a Mac version to revert back to FF3.6 in OSX.
Disclaimers:
1. You must already know how to change your Android Applications Settings to allow installation of non-Market Android applications.
2. This has been tested on, and only on, a Droid2 running Android 2.2(Froyo). I don't have a Android 3(Honeycomb) device to test.
3. If you are using an earlier version than 4b4 and it works, dont mess with it. If you are using 4b5 or 4 then this may help you with iCrew.
3. Use this information at your own risk.
This is how to install an older version of Firefox for Android that works with iCrew:
Optional step - Uninstall the current Firefox using Application Manager.
1. Use your phone web browser to go to "ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mobile/releases/4.0b4/android-r7/en-US/" WITHOUT THE QUOTATION MARKS
or you can try this link Index of /pub/mozilla.org/mobile/releases/4.0b4/android-r7/en-US
or type this link into your browser http://tinyurl.com/6zmf84y
Download (click on) fennec-4.0b4.en-US.eabi-arm.apk
2. Find the file on your phone where it was downloaded and click on it.
3. Install the App.
4. When done installing launch Firefox and test deltanet and iCrew.
I selected Firefox version 4b4 because 4b5 and the latest version gave me problems in iCrew.
Good Luck and use at your own risk.
I'll try and follow this up with a Mac version to revert back to FF3.6 in OSX.
Last edited by Nosmo King; 04-25-2011 at 05:58 PM. Reason: Fighting with the test editor to get the URL in here untruncated.
04-25-2011, 05:36 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 841
Slow, Mr. Comm chair &/or Mr. Teasurer:
Hawaiian Airlines. Did or did they not file for chapter 11 bankruptcy protection on March 21, 2003?
Hawaiian Airlines. Did or did they not receive court approval for its reorganization plan that included renegotiated contracts with its union work groups under an 1113 provision?
In regards to Hawaiian again. Did ALPA or did ALPA not negotiate a TA that was voted down by the pilots by a 55 to 45 margin causing Hawaiian to then threaten to return to the court to obtain a contract?
Did the Hawaiian pilots, or did they not, then approve their second TA that contained a much better deal and was negotiated, rather than concieved by the judge, through the same 1113 process and code Delta pilots were working with in BK court?
And finally, to your often repeated claim that Hawaiian was involved in a "sham" bankruptcy, and that fact must be true because their creditors received 100%on their claims:
Multiple parties were bidding on Hawaiian as they were set to emerge from court reorganization. The bidding war per se was what enabled theose creditors to obtain that kind of return, not the "sham" bankruptcy.
Hawaiian Airlines. Did or did they not file for chapter 11 bankruptcy protection on March 21, 2003?
Hawaiian Airlines. Did or did they not receive court approval for its reorganization plan that included renegotiated contracts with its union work groups under an 1113 provision?
In regards to Hawaiian again. Did ALPA or did ALPA not negotiate a TA that was voted down by the pilots by a 55 to 45 margin causing Hawaiian to then threaten to return to the court to obtain a contract?
Did the Hawaiian pilots, or did they not, then approve their second TA that contained a much better deal and was negotiated, rather than concieved by the judge, through the same 1113 process and code Delta pilots were working with in BK court?
And finally, to your often repeated claim that Hawaiian was involved in a "sham" bankruptcy, and that fact must be true because their creditors received 100%on their claims:
Multiple parties were bidding on Hawaiian as they were set to emerge from court reorganization. The bidding war per se was what enabled theose creditors to obtain that kind of return, not the "sham" bankruptcy.
Bullish in bankruptcy
With Hawaiian reporting this week the best first-quarter operating profit in its history and the 12th straight month in the black, prospective bidders were getting financial data from the trustee to polish their plans.
Adams and Carty got general financial data last week and have submitted a request for more specific data covering individual route profitability.
The process is similar to due diligence when a prospective purchaser of a business looks at the books. But when Adams heard this, he chuckled.
"There is one big difference from regular due diligence," he said. "They're the sellers, but we think their forecast is a lot more dismal than ours will be."
Hawaiian management has warned employees that current profitability could be a window of profits that closes later if mainland airlines enter Hawaiian's best-performing routes.
Carty doesn't think so. Mainland carriers not already flying to Hawaii tend not to have the right aircraft for the run.
"Southwest and America West couldn't fly here without changing their business model," he said.
Other bidders also said they think Hawaiian and Aloha have found a niche in their mainland routes that would be difficult for other airlines to exploit, especially in the next few years when they are likely to be concentrating on improving the profitability of the routes they already have.
With Hawaiian reporting this week the best first-quarter operating profit in its history and the 12th straight month in the black, prospective bidders were getting financial data from the trustee to polish their plans.
Adams and Carty got general financial data last week and have submitted a request for more specific data covering individual route profitability.
The process is similar to due diligence when a prospective purchaser of a business looks at the books. But when Adams heard this, he chuckled.
"There is one big difference from regular due diligence," he said. "They're the sellers, but we think their forecast is a lot more dismal than ours will be."
Hawaiian management has warned employees that current profitability could be a window of profits that closes later if mainland airlines enter Hawaiian's best-performing routes.
Carty doesn't think so. Mainland carriers not already flying to Hawaii tend not to have the right aircraft for the run.
"Southwest and America West couldn't fly here without changing their business model," he said.
Other bidders also said they think Hawaiian and Aloha have found a niche in their mainland routes that would be difficult for other airlines to exploit, especially in the next few years when they are likely to be concentrating on improving the profitability of the routes they already have.
etc?
04-25-2011, 05:41 PM
Inventory survival kit ..
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Seeking no jacket required rotations
Posts: 1,069
We flew HNL-SEL (Gimpo) for a long time as fNW flights 65/66. That ended after the first almost bankruptcy in 1993 when ALPA caved in on the foreign code sharing language. My memory says Asiana but I would have to find my old notes to verify that info. No need to fly the route when you can code share it and make money. Now it is a SkyTeam code share with KAL.
04-25-2011, 05:42 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,883
Nu
04-25-2011, 05:45 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,619
I don't post here much, but I do keep up with the threads and this latest round of discussion has brought to light an issue that I think the ALPA structure needs to understand. I don't really care if we have the #1 ranked payrate or the #50 ranked payrate. I can look at my paystub every two weeks and figure out that it is not near enough. I can also look at my timecard and figure out that I worked too many days for that money.
I, as well as the people I fly with, are ready to see some MAJOR improvements to our total compensation package........ (deleted to save space)
I, as well as the people I fly with, are ready to see some MAJOR improvements to our total compensation package........ (deleted to save space)
While certainly a worthy goal, the problem was that this goal was just made up with no regard for the market place they were operating in. What does a house cost? It's not what you bought it for, it's not what it was worth 5 years ago, it's not worth what you hope it's worth, it is worth what the market will bear. That is market economics.
You can try to convince me until the cows come home that we are "worth" some compensation level from some years past, but it's not me you have to convince. It's the NMB's opinion that matters. Remember, under the RLA our contract negotiations have no timeline, they have no set ending date, they literally can go on until we are all dead. They only timeline that can occur is when the NMB declares an impasse.
So after APA’s experiment of the entire forum plans let's examine the results. A couple of months ago, after four+ years of negotiating, the NMB told the APA that they were wasting their time and put them on indefinite hold. Just to put it into perspective, a similar result for us puts into April 2017. That's right 2017. It's not just that, it's that they have no path to get anything now. There really is no way forward for them. So if the Delta MEC is trying to find another way, it's not because people don't want more or deserve more, it's because they don't want to stand still for another 5 or 6 years and then come up with plan B.
You say that the JCBA is okay but not enough. Well how about zero, is that enough. CAL and UAL are in Section 6 negotiations along with their JCBA and they have returned zero so far. APA they are 0 for 4+ years now and it looks like at least another 2. LCC, they are 0 for 5 years and will probably get broken apart before they get another raise. So it makes 5% a year (including DC) look a lot better when you see all these other plans are returning zero.
So we have SWA, which is the kicker. They are clearly ahead, but everyone needs to understand that they fly a LOT of hours over there. Now their operation makes it easy to fly lots of hours in few days, but in the end, if Delta pilots flew what their pilots did we would have 800 or 900 extra pilots right now. Be careful what you wish for. I am a senior pilot so it doesn't affect me, but maybe if I was close to the bottom I would be wary of "being like Southwest" at least in all facets.
Maybe we just need to walk down the path of the APA for a while. We had all of these loony theories tested in the last round Chapter 11’s and they all failed, but apparently people have short memories. The American pilots are certainly fed up and chose a different path. Maybe we just need to flail around for several years and eventually the forum theories will be shown once again to be based on fantasy and not reality. The MEC will have a tough choice soon; pander to the loudest voices on the webboards or get money now. They can’t do both.
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