Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
Inventory survival kit ..
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Seeking no jacket required rotations
Posts: 1,069
For any geeks interested, the Nook Color update was released today for manual
Download and will be auto updating next week. Its an upgrade to Android 2.2 with
Flash and a limited app store.
Works on Deltanet - yes, zo far
Works on travelner - yes, but havent tried listing
Works on iCrew - No gets simple accelerator error in the usual places
Works on APC forums - yes
Posted from my Nook Color
Download and will be auto updating next week. Its an upgrade to Android 2.2 with
Flash and a limited app store.
Works on Deltanet - yes, zo far
Works on travelner - yes, but havent tried listing
Works on iCrew - No gets simple accelerator error in the usual places
Works on APC forums - yes
Posted from my Nook Color
I believe getting our reserve guarantee to ALV-5 with a floor of 75 should be a priority in our next contract. I would also like to eliminate differences between reserve and regular credit calculations when on a rotation. Those have been a couple of my pet peeves, but I'm just one of 12,000 opinions.
Totally agree with those two contract items. Have wondered why reserve gets different pay computation for the same rotation. Of course, it might also explain all of those comments on the rotation that said "Reserve Only".
Carl
The management guy has time to post your responses in multiple threads, but he never answered my question about Hawaiian being a Delta peer either...the one where Hawaiian's creditors were paid 100 cents on the dollar in their sham bankruptcy. Delta pilots were the second largest creditor in our trip through the courts and got 60 cents on the dollar. The largest creditor only got 46 cents...
As he does his seat math, he fails to mention that Hawaiian 767 pay is also their A330 pay. Delta pays the A330 at $205 per hour compared to HAL's $191 per hour. Of course, we could use his same seat cost "argument"...Hawaiian's 767ER's seat 264 people, Delta's 216. And our 757's in international configuration only seat 160 at the exact same payrate...is that seat cost argument still sounding good? No spin there... He also conveniently omits that Delta's 124 seat 737 also pays $174 per hour, and our 124 seat A319 pays $168/hr, and our 125 seat DC-9 pays $157 per hour...maybe we have entered the spin zone! Oh, and how many hours was the average Delta pilot compensated last year? 87 hours per month, nowhere near the guarantees...Hawaiian? Maybe it's time for the DPA forum to do some more Form 41 research.
I wonder how long you'll have to wait for for your answers. The DPA guys jumped on me for being gone 10 hours on Easter Sunday.
As he does his seat math, he fails to mention that Hawaiian 767 pay is also their A330 pay. Delta pays the A330 at $205 per hour compared to HAL's $191 per hour. Of course, we could use his same seat cost "argument"...Hawaiian's 767ER's seat 264 people, Delta's 216. And our 757's in international configuration only seat 160 at the exact same payrate...is that seat cost argument still sounding good? No spin there... He also conveniently omits that Delta's 124 seat 737 also pays $174 per hour, and our 124 seat A319 pays $168/hr, and our 125 seat DC-9 pays $157 per hour...maybe we have entered the spin zone! Oh, and how many hours was the average Delta pilot compensated last year? 87 hours per month, nowhere near the guarantees...Hawaiian? Maybe it's time for the DPA forum to do some more Form 41 research.
I wonder how long you'll have to wait for for your answers. The DPA guys jumped on me for being gone 10 hours on Easter Sunday.
I, as well as the people I fly with, are ready to see some MAJOR improvements to our total compensation package, scope and work rules. While I do not want to go as far to say that ALPA will not aggressively fight for restoration, I will say that I am concerned. The official communications from our MEC does not give me confidence. I want my union to state unequivocally that they expect our next contract to compensate us in a way that is comparable to the value of our profession before bankruptcy. I want to know that ALPA thinks that all Delta passengers should be flown by Delta pilots. I want to know that ALPA thinks that some aspects of our scheduling section need solid improvements.
Instead I get an impression that in 2012 ALPA will be content with a slightly revised version of our current agreement with a small pay increase tossed in (much like the JCBA). While this may not be correct, it is the impression that is rampent among the line pilots. If it is not the case, DALPA needs to seriously revise the content and methods of their communications. While I don't think that we need to rise to the level of militant and confrontational tactics with management, the union can say that we expect more--much more. I want the DALPA MEC to state that and I want DALPA MEC to continually state that.
When the next TA is presented to the membership, I will first look at section 1. If it does not show tightened language and improvements--No vote. I will then look at payrates/compenstation. If the package will not result in compensation of SWA/FDX/UPS+ (for an average month, not scenarios that require green/white/yellow slipping, etc.)--No vote. Third I will look at scheduling. Without major improvements--No vote. If the TA passes those three tests I will then look over the other sections and determine if it is acceptable. When the company sits across the table to exchange openers, I want them to know that we have 12,000 pilots that will vote this way and a union that will not present them with anything less.
I hope that AA/UCAL can get the improvements they want, but I do not want them to be a barometer of what we can gain. I want DALPA to respond to OUR needs. If they succeed it will make our fight easier, but it is looking increasingly more likely they both may still be unresolved by the time we open. I want DALPA to have a solid plan to restore our contract independent of what other groups are doing. In addition, if we settle for less we undercut their ability to get substantial gains.
If it sounds like I am afraid, thats because I am. I am afraid that the union I employ to protect my interests will try to sell us a contract for less than I am worth. I am afraid that my union will continue to allow more of our flying to be outsourced. All of this in the name of good relations with the company. There is a fine line the union must balance between "constructive engagement" and old fashioned union screaming and stomping. Right now ALPA seems to have too much engagement and not enough noise being made over issues that are important to us. The pilots feel disenfranchised because we have not seen any major improvements and ALPA seems content to continue down this path. I know someone will point out LOA 19 and the JCBA as improvements and my answer is that is not nearly enough. When our buying power and quality of life is back to where it was a decade ago--that will be enough.
Sorry about the rant, but we as a pilot group need to be sure that the union we hire to represent us measures gains by the assigning an acceptable value to our profession, not merely by our ranking within our peers. Slowplay, I do not mean to single out your post, it just seems that we are becoming focused on the wrong issues. I do value your opinion and am glad that we have people on this board to represent all sides of the issues. Lets figure out how to combine this energy and provide the best results possible for this pilot group.
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,960
The management guy has time to post your responses in multiple threads, but he never answered my question about Hawaiian being a Delta peer either...the one where Hawaiian's creditors were paid 100 cents on the dollar in their sham bankruptcy. Delta pilots were the second largest creditor in our trip through the courts and got 60 cents on the dollar. The largest creditor only got 46 cents...
As he does his seat math, he fails to mention that Hawaiian 767 pay is also their A330 pay. Delta pays the A330 at $205 per hour compared to HAL's $191 per hour. Of course, we could use his same seat cost "argument"...Hawaiian's 767ER's seat 264 people, Delta's 216. And our 757's in international configuration only seat 160 at the exact same payrate...is that seat cost argument still sounding good? No spin there... He also conveniently omits that Delta's 124 seat 737 also pays $174 per hour, and our 124 seat A319 pays $168/hr, and our 125 seat DC-9 pays $157 per hour...maybe we have entered the spin zone! Oh, and how many hours was the average Delta pilot compensated last year? 87 hours per month, nowhere near the guarantees...Hawaiian? Maybe it's time for the DPA forum to do some more Form 41 research.
I wonder how long you'll have to wait for for your answers. The DPA guys jumped on me for being gone 10 hours on Easter Sunday.
As he does his seat math, he fails to mention that Hawaiian 767 pay is also their A330 pay. Delta pays the A330 at $205 per hour compared to HAL's $191 per hour. Of course, we could use his same seat cost "argument"...Hawaiian's 767ER's seat 264 people, Delta's 216. And our 757's in international configuration only seat 160 at the exact same payrate...is that seat cost argument still sounding good? No spin there... He also conveniently omits that Delta's 124 seat 737 also pays $174 per hour, and our 124 seat A319 pays $168/hr, and our 125 seat DC-9 pays $157 per hour...maybe we have entered the spin zone! Oh, and how many hours was the average Delta pilot compensated last year? 87 hours per month, nowhere near the guarantees...Hawaiian? Maybe it's time for the DPA forum to do some more Form 41 research.
I wonder how long you'll have to wait for for your answers. The DPA guys jumped on me for being gone 10 hours on Easter Sunday.
I don't post here much, but I do keep up with the threads and this latest round of discussion has brought to light an issue that I think the ALPA structure needs to understand. I don't really care if we have the #1 ranked payrate or the #50 ranked payrate. I can look at my paystub every two weeks and figure out that it is not near enough. I can also look at my timecard and figure out that I worked too many days for that money.
I, as well as the people I fly with, are ready to see some MAJOR improvements to our total compensation package, scope and work rules. While I do not want to go as far to say that ALPA will not aggressively fight for restoration, I will say that I am concerned. The official communications from our MEC does not give me confidence. I want my union to state unequivocally that they expect our next contract to compensate us in a way that is comparable to the value of our profession before bankruptcy. I want to know that ALPA thinks that all Delta passengers should be flown by Delta pilots. I want to know that ALPA thinks that some aspects of our scheduling section need solid improvements.
Instead I get an impression that in 2012 ALPA will be content with a slightly revised version of our current agreement with a small pay increase tossed in (much like the JCBA). While this may not be correct, it is the impression that is rampent among the line pilots. If it is not the case, DALPA needs to seriously revise the content and methods of their communications. While I don't think that we need to rise to the level of militant and confrontational tactics with management, the union can say that we expect more--much more. I want the DALPA MEC to state that and I want DALPA MEC to continually state that.
When the next TA is presented to the membership, I will first look at section 1. If it does not show tightened language and improvements--No vote. I will then look at payrates/compenstation. If the package will not result in compensation of SWA/FDX/UPS+ (for an average month, not scenarios that require green/white/yellow slipping, etc.)--No vote. Third I will look at scheduling. Without major improvements--No vote. If the TA passes those three tests I will then look over the other sections and determine if it is acceptable. When the company sits across the table to exchange openers, I want them to know that we have 12,000 pilots that will vote this way and a union that will not present them with anything less.
I hope that AA/UCAL can get the improvements they want, but I do not want them to be a barometer of what we can gain. I want DALPA to respond to OUR needs. If they succeed it will make our fight easier, but it is looking increasingly more likely they both may still be unresolved by the time we open. I want DALPA to have a solid plan to restore our contract independent of what other groups are doing. In addition, if we settle for less we undercut their ability to get substantial gains.
If it sounds like I am afraid, thats because I am. I am afraid that the union I employ to protect my interests will try to sell us a contract for less than I am worth. I am afraid that my union will continue to allow more of our flying to be outsourced. All of this in the name of good relations with the company. There is a fine line the union must balance between "constructive engagement" and old fashioned union screaming and stomping. Right now ALPA seems to have too much engagement and not enough noise being made over issues that are important to us. The pilots feel disenfranchised because we have not seen any major improvements and ALPA seems content to continue down this path. I know someone will point out LOA 19 and the JCBA as improvements and my answer is that is not nearly enough. When our buying power and quality of life is back to where it was a decade ago--that will be enough.
Sorry about the rant, but we as a pilot group need to be sure that the union we hire to represent us measures gains by the assigning an acceptable value to our profession, not merely by our ranking within our peers. Slowplay, I do not mean to single out your post, it just seems that we are becoming focused on the wrong issues. I do value your opinion and am glad that we have people on this board to represent all sides of the issues. Lets figure out how to combine this energy and provide the best results possible for this pilot group.
I, as well as the people I fly with, are ready to see some MAJOR improvements to our total compensation package, scope and work rules. While I do not want to go as far to say that ALPA will not aggressively fight for restoration, I will say that I am concerned. The official communications from our MEC does not give me confidence. I want my union to state unequivocally that they expect our next contract to compensate us in a way that is comparable to the value of our profession before bankruptcy. I want to know that ALPA thinks that all Delta passengers should be flown by Delta pilots. I want to know that ALPA thinks that some aspects of our scheduling section need solid improvements.
Instead I get an impression that in 2012 ALPA will be content with a slightly revised version of our current agreement with a small pay increase tossed in (much like the JCBA). While this may not be correct, it is the impression that is rampent among the line pilots. If it is not the case, DALPA needs to seriously revise the content and methods of their communications. While I don't think that we need to rise to the level of militant and confrontational tactics with management, the union can say that we expect more--much more. I want the DALPA MEC to state that and I want DALPA MEC to continually state that.
When the next TA is presented to the membership, I will first look at section 1. If it does not show tightened language and improvements--No vote. I will then look at payrates/compenstation. If the package will not result in compensation of SWA/FDX/UPS+ (for an average month, not scenarios that require green/white/yellow slipping, etc.)--No vote. Third I will look at scheduling. Without major improvements--No vote. If the TA passes those three tests I will then look over the other sections and determine if it is acceptable. When the company sits across the table to exchange openers, I want them to know that we have 12,000 pilots that will vote this way and a union that will not present them with anything less.
I hope that AA/UCAL can get the improvements they want, but I do not want them to be a barometer of what we can gain. I want DALPA to respond to OUR needs. If they succeed it will make our fight easier, but it is looking increasingly more likely they both may still be unresolved by the time we open. I want DALPA to have a solid plan to restore our contract independent of what other groups are doing. In addition, if we settle for less we undercut their ability to get substantial gains.
If it sounds like I am afraid, thats because I am. I am afraid that the union I employ to protect my interests will try to sell us a contract for less than I am worth. I am afraid that my union will continue to allow more of our flying to be outsourced. All of this in the name of good relations with the company. There is a fine line the union must balance between "constructive engagement" and old fashioned union screaming and stomping. Right now ALPA seems to have too much engagement and not enough noise being made over issues that are important to us. The pilots feel disenfranchised because we have not seen any major improvements and ALPA seems content to continue down this path. I know someone will point out LOA 19 and the JCBA as improvements and my answer is that is not nearly enough. When our buying power and quality of life is back to where it was a decade ago--that will be enough.
Sorry about the rant, but we as a pilot group need to be sure that the union we hire to represent us measures gains by the assigning an acceptable value to our profession, not merely by our ranking within our peers. Slowplay, I do not mean to single out your post, it just seems that we are becoming focused on the wrong issues. I do value your opinion and am glad that we have people on this board to represent all sides of the issues. Lets figure out how to combine this energy and provide the best results possible for this pilot group.
Secondly, you hit the nail squarely on the head for myself and 95% of the guys I fly with. You also, very eloquently, laid out the approach that I too will adapt as we go forward. Your concerns and expectations are exactly mine. This should be the approach of our ALPA. I, too, have concerns that it hasn't been, and won't be. Hopefully, I'm wrong but nothing I've seen to date gives me reason to have confidence.
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 201
I don't post here much, but I do keep up with the threads and this latest round of discussion has brought to light an issue that I think the ALPA structure needs to understand. I don't really care if we have the #1 ranked payrate or the #50 ranked payrate. I can look at my paystub every two weeks and figure out that it is not near enough. I can also look at my timecard and figure out that I worked too many days for that money.
I, as well as the people I fly with, are ready to see some MAJOR improvements to our total compensation package, scope and work rules. While I do not want to go as far to say that ALPA will not aggressively fight for restoration, I will say that I am concerned. The official communications from our MEC does not give me confidence. I want my union to state unequivocally that they expect our next contract to compensate us in a way that is comparable to the value of our profession before bankruptcy. I want to know that ALPA thinks that all Delta passengers should be flown by Delta pilots. I want to know that ALPA thinks that some aspects of our scheduling section need solid improvements.
Instead I get an impression that in 2012 ALPA will be content with a slightly revised version of our current agreement with a small pay increase tossed in (much like the JCBA). While this may not be correct, it is the impression that is rampent among the line pilots. If it is not the case, DALPA needs to seriously revise the content and methods of their communications. While I don't think that we need to rise to the level of militant and confrontational tactics with management, the union can say that we expect more--much more. I want the DALPA MEC to state that and I want DALPA MEC to continually state that.
When the next TA is presented to the membership, I will first look at section 1. If it does not show tightened language and improvements--No vote. I will then look at payrates/compenstation. If the package will not result in compensation of SWA/FDX/UPS+ (for an average month, not scenarios that require green/white/yellow slipping, etc.)--No vote. Third I will look at scheduling. Without major improvements--No vote. If the TA passes those three tests I will then look over the other sections and determine if it is acceptable. When the company sits across the table to exchange openers, I want them to know that we have 12,000 pilots that will vote this way and a union that will not present them with anything less.
I hope that AA/UCAL can get the improvements they want, but I do not want them to be a barometer of what we can gain. I want DALPA to respond to OUR needs. If they succeed it will make our fight easier, but it is looking increasingly more likely they both may still be unresolved by the time we open. I want DALPA to have a solid plan to restore our contract independent of what other groups are doing. In addition, if we settle for less we undercut their ability to get substantial gains.
If it sounds like I am afraid, thats because I am. I am afraid that the union I employ to protect my interests will try to sell us a contract for less than I am worth. I am afraid that my union will continue to allow more of our flying to be outsourced. All of this in the name of good relations with the company. There is a fine line the union must balance between "constructive engagement" and old fashioned union screaming and stomping. Right now ALPA seems to have too much engagement and not enough noise being made over issues that are important to us. The pilots feel disenfranchised because we have not seen any major improvements and ALPA seems content to continue down this path. I know someone will point out LOA 19 and the JCBA as improvements and my answer is that is not nearly enough. When our buying power and quality of life is back to where it was a decade ago--that will be enough.
Sorry about the rant, but we as a pilot group need to be sure that the union we hire to represent us measures gains by the assigning an acceptable value to our profession, not merely by our ranking within our peers. Slowplay, I do not mean to single out your post, it just seems that we are becoming focused on the wrong issues. I do value your opinion and am glad that we have people on this board to represent all sides of the issues. Lets figure out how to combine this energy and provide the best results possible for this pilot group.
I, as well as the people I fly with, are ready to see some MAJOR improvements to our total compensation package, scope and work rules. While I do not want to go as far to say that ALPA will not aggressively fight for restoration, I will say that I am concerned. The official communications from our MEC does not give me confidence. I want my union to state unequivocally that they expect our next contract to compensate us in a way that is comparable to the value of our profession before bankruptcy. I want to know that ALPA thinks that all Delta passengers should be flown by Delta pilots. I want to know that ALPA thinks that some aspects of our scheduling section need solid improvements.
Instead I get an impression that in 2012 ALPA will be content with a slightly revised version of our current agreement with a small pay increase tossed in (much like the JCBA). While this may not be correct, it is the impression that is rampent among the line pilots. If it is not the case, DALPA needs to seriously revise the content and methods of their communications. While I don't think that we need to rise to the level of militant and confrontational tactics with management, the union can say that we expect more--much more. I want the DALPA MEC to state that and I want DALPA MEC to continually state that.
When the next TA is presented to the membership, I will first look at section 1. If it does not show tightened language and improvements--No vote. I will then look at payrates/compenstation. If the package will not result in compensation of SWA/FDX/UPS+ (for an average month, not scenarios that require green/white/yellow slipping, etc.)--No vote. Third I will look at scheduling. Without major improvements--No vote. If the TA passes those three tests I will then look over the other sections and determine if it is acceptable. When the company sits across the table to exchange openers, I want them to know that we have 12,000 pilots that will vote this way and a union that will not present them with anything less.
I hope that AA/UCAL can get the improvements they want, but I do not want them to be a barometer of what we can gain. I want DALPA to respond to OUR needs. If they succeed it will make our fight easier, but it is looking increasingly more likely they both may still be unresolved by the time we open. I want DALPA to have a solid plan to restore our contract independent of what other groups are doing. In addition, if we settle for less we undercut their ability to get substantial gains.
If it sounds like I am afraid, thats because I am. I am afraid that the union I employ to protect my interests will try to sell us a contract for less than I am worth. I am afraid that my union will continue to allow more of our flying to be outsourced. All of this in the name of good relations with the company. There is a fine line the union must balance between "constructive engagement" and old fashioned union screaming and stomping. Right now ALPA seems to have too much engagement and not enough noise being made over issues that are important to us. The pilots feel disenfranchised because we have not seen any major improvements and ALPA seems content to continue down this path. I know someone will point out LOA 19 and the JCBA as improvements and my answer is that is not nearly enough. When our buying power and quality of life is back to where it was a decade ago--that will be enough.
Sorry about the rant, but we as a pilot group need to be sure that the union we hire to represent us measures gains by the assigning an acceptable value to our profession, not merely by our ranking within our peers. Slowplay, I do not mean to single out your post, it just seems that we are becoming focused on the wrong issues. I do value your opinion and am glad that we have people on this board to represent all sides of the issues. Lets figure out how to combine this energy and provide the best results possible for this pilot group.
Excellent post, Ragtop! You nailed it.
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Petting Zoo
Posts: 2,080
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 374
When the next TA is presented to the membership, I will first look at section 1. If it does not show tightened language and improvements--No vote. I will then look at payrates/compenstation. If the package will not result in compensation of SWA/FDX/UPS+ (for an average month, not scenarios that require green/white/yellow slipping, etc.)--No vote. Third I will look at scheduling. Without major improvements--No vote. If the TA passes those three tests I will then look over the other sections and determine if it is acceptable. When the company sits across the table to exchange openers, I want them to know that we have 12,000 pilots that will vote this way and a union that will not present them with anything less.
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