Columbia

That's true for age 60, however, health problems accelerate and maintaing medicals is a bit different after 60. That and the job simply becomes physically and mentally harder as one ages.

MoonShot

I've been off a month waiting for OE. I have to tell you, its like being retired! LOVING IT! I still can't figure out why these 60+ guys are hanging around, especially the ones with pensions. Get the heck outta here! There are much better things in life than sitting in the left seat of a widebody until they have to haul you away in a long black Cadillac.

alfaromeo

There are several layers of economic penalties that Delta would incur if they furloughed. Those penalties would only be worth taking if there was some dramatic 9/11 type event that mandated a very large furlough. If you want a different base or different jet, then you can worry about the AE, but if you are worried about furlough, put the computer down because that's is not in the works.

TheManager

A compensation tidbit, with PG's new call sign redacted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy
Fair enough. First I'll provide my...

OPINION: Our peer group should be those airlines who were similarly situated and went through bankruptcy about the same time we did. Meaning, UAL, USAir, NWA, and DAL.

But I'm sure you'd scoff at that. I already know....

YOUR OPINION: LUV and UPS (can't count FDX because they are an ALPA carrier and all ALPA carriers are bad, bad, bad...)

So, let's turn to an independent 3rd party; one with no agenda and no axe to grind. Try this: Airline Pilot Central






OK ***** ****, lets do just that. We will:

1. Use an airline from your bankruptcy peer group. A little defeatest, but that is what I expect from folks that suffer from low self esteem.

2. We will use your independent 3rd party.

I submit to all reading this thread, Hawaiian Airlines.

They went through BK the same year Delta and Northwest did. They also fly the same equipment we do as well. In fact, they fly 767's that were recently on Delta's certificate. They also fly the 717 that holds 123 people in mixed seating in a leisure market with LCC competition.

Imagine that!!

To follow up, they have expanded recently and compete directly with Delta in the Hawaiian-Japan/Korea market.

Now. Is that a good enough comparison so far?

Here is where the similarities stop.

Lets begin peeling the layers of the 717 onion back first. We are not going to go with straight numbers from APC since they don't have 737's to compare directly with, we will put more thought into them than that:

717 holds 123 people. Captain at 12 years is paid $162.00

That equals $1.317 dollars per hour/per seat.

Delta's 737 hold 160 people. So for equivelent pay we have 160 seats * 1.317 multiplier = $210.72 per hour.

In order for a Delta 737 Captain to be paid at the same level of compensation that a Hawaiian 717 captain is, they would have to earn $210 an hour.

Now, we can compare the 767 straight across if you like.

Hawaiian: $191.00 per hour

Delta: $182.00 per hour

Since this is so enlightening.....lets keep going shall we?

Delta per diem domestic $2.00
Hawaiian domestic $2.50

Delta International p/d $2.50
Hawaiian OCONUS pay! Wow, what a great idea!

This is fun, let's explore.....retirement.

Delta 11% + 2% 401k company match.
Hawaiian 19.4% 401k plus 2.40 a/b (new hires get 15%)

And, here is the gonad cracker.

Take the above rates and multiplier and apply it to the Achilles heel in the DAL PWA.....

The monthly guarantee.

Delta. Line holders 65 hrs. Reserve 70 hrs.
Hawaiian Line holders 75hrs. Reserve 75 hrs.

Results in much larger W2's and retirement, and they are a peer. Even an ALPA peer.

Carl Spackler

My letters to my elected reps advise them to not believe the obvious BS that adding an additional 2 hours of duty time to a pilot's day will decrease pilot fatigue. I urge them to tell the feds to start over, because their current proposal is nothing but a recipe to add pilots to the list of aviation professionals that can't stay awake.

ALPA's position is once again wrong and weak.

Carl

Carl Spackler

Must be the same guy I spoke to, because he gave me the same reply. I advised him that he's really not doing a very good job of supporting Windows either.

Carl

Brocc15

Actually I'm anxious for the AE because I plan to switch my base, which would also involve switching airplanes. I'm pretty sure I'll be able to hold it, but it would be really nice if I could go into training before I am due for recurrent training. I am very anxious to stop commuting by airplane to work and start commuting by car!

iceman49

I'm with AlphaR on no furlough, but hiring not so sure that's necessary.

Pineapple Guy

Resorted to posting in multiple threads now, eh? Fair enough.

I'll let the forum audience decide whether Hawaiian is in our peer group. They have a fleet of 36 airplanes and fly to an impressive 15 cities from 4 different Hawaiian destinations. 452 total pilots.

So, assuming they DO count, then we are 2nd out of 7. Care to comment on any of the others, and explain why ALPA (who represents Hawaiian, BTW) and by extension the DAL MEC should be replaced?

Amish Pilot

No, it was a Lady. She was very friendly, but not much help. Anyway, I am really happy with the tablet pc. Works well for everything, except I-crew.