Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
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That is an excellent point. There are lots of guys out there that are fine and dandy happy to fly a baby airbus.. So why would THESE guys upset the apple cart by voting in an entity that would surely try to limit their upward mobility within that company? Altruism?
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Very true, and I would love to see them gone tomorrow. For many reasons that is not realistic. The top reason is that there are income guarantees in many of them, and if DAL is still on the hook, the bargaining credit to buy them off would be so steep that most of our group would balk.
Because of this we need a different strategy. On that is low to zero cost at the table. One that the senior pilots can see as not taking money from them. Sun-setting these agreements is the first step, and then continually lowering the cap of allowable jets is the other. It is a measured pull down.
Because of this we need a different strategy. On that is low to zero cost at the table. One that the senior pilots can see as not taking money from them. Sun-setting these agreements is the first step, and then continually lowering the cap of allowable jets is the other. It is a measured pull down.
When is THAT part going to start?
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Very true, and I would love to see them gone tomorrow. For many reasons that is not realistic. The top reason is that there are income guarantees in many of them, and if DAL is still on the hook, the bargaining credit to buy them off would be so steep that most of our group would balk.
Because of this we need a different strategy. On that is low to zero cost at the table. One that the senior pilots can see as not taking money from them. Sun-setting these agreements is the first step, and then continually lowering the cap of allowable jets is the other. It is a measured pull down.
Because of this we need a different strategy. On that is low to zero cost at the table. One that the senior pilots can see as not taking money from them. Sun-setting these agreements is the first step, and then continually lowering the cap of allowable jets is the other. It is a measured pull down.
We may terminate without cause the Chautauqua agreement at any time and the Shuttle America agreement at any time after January 2016 by providing certain advance notice. If we terminate either the Chautauqua or Shuttle America agreements without cause, Chautauqua or Shuttle America, respectively, has the right to (1) assign to us leased aircraft that the airline operates for us, provided we are able to continue the leases on the same terms the airline had prior to the assignment and (2) require us to purchase or lease any aircraft the airline owns and operates for us at the time of the termination. If we are required to purchase aircraft owned by Chautauqua or Shuttle America, the purchase price would be equal to the amount necessary to (1) reimburse Chautauqua or Shuttle America for the equity it provided to purchase the aircraft and (2) repay in full any debt outstanding at such time that is not being assumed in connection with such purchase. If we are required to lease aircraft owned by Chautauqua or Shuttle America, the lease would have (1) a rate equal to the debt payments of Chautauqua or Shuttle America for the debt financing of the aircraft calculated as if 90% of the aircraft was debt financed by Chautauqua or Shuttle America and (2) other specified terms and conditions.
We estimate that the total fair values, determined as of December 31, 2010, of the aircraft Chautauqua or Shuttle America could assign to us or require that we purchase if we terminate without cause our Contract Carrier agreements with those airlines (the “Put Right”) are approximately $160 million and $370 million, respectively. The actual amount we may be required to pay in these circumstances may be materially different from these estimates. If the Put Right is exercised, we must also pay the exercising carrier 10% interest (compounded monthly) on the equity the carrier provided when it purchased the put aircraft. These equity amounts for Chautauqua and Shuttle America total $25 million and $52 million, respectively.
Wouldn't that be doing Delta Air Lines management a huge favor getting rid of a future competitor that's using our money to fund their new operation and acquisitions? Not to mention, they want out of the RJ business, right?
We estimate that the total fair values, determined as of December 31, 2010, of the aircraft Chautauqua or Shuttle America could assign to us or require that we purchase if we terminate without cause our Contract Carrier agreements with those airlines (the “Put Right”) are approximately $160 million and $370 million, respectively. The actual amount we may be required to pay in these circumstances may be materially different from these estimates. If the Put Right is exercised, we must also pay the exercising carrier 10% interest (compounded monthly) on the equity the carrier provided when it purchased the put aircraft. These equity amounts for Chautauqua and Shuttle America total $25 million and $52 million, respectively.
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Look at the going rate for a BBJ Captain and FO, then compare to ours.
Look at a SWA FO rate and then those rates. Then look at productivity and provide an hourly rate for those BBJ guys and compare it to your rate. That will give you a good indication of what market forces pay compared to us.
It has been a few years since I have done this, but I can tell you that our hourly rate is a lot lower than the BBJ's/Global Express pilots are. If you are really board, look at what Coke pays their pilots. They are one of the few companies that has high utilization of their pilots.
Look at a SWA FO rate and then those rates. Then look at productivity and provide an hourly rate for those BBJ guys and compare it to your rate. That will give you a good indication of what market forces pay compared to us.
It has been a few years since I have done this, but I can tell you that our hourly rate is a lot lower than the BBJ's/Global Express pilots are. If you are really board, look at what Coke pays their pilots. They are one of the few companies that has high utilization of their pilots.
Is this about what you find, ACL?
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I usually try to agree with ACL, but in this case I can't. We (DALPA) aren't even trying to fight the RAH issue. It might upset the apple cart and imperil the cushy (read lucrative) relationship our DALPA leaders enjoy with Management.
Ultimately I think all unions are doomed because they have lost sight of what they are supposed to represent and instead begin to enjoy the benefits/power of their position. They lose sight of what the line pilots want because they no longer are line pilots themselves.
If we don't ask (read challenge) the company about section 1, we won't get. We'll do exactly what FTB proposes in his stop light post, we'll end up once again at the receiving end of a bully's put down. Like a elementary school fight, the bully won't stop until you stand up to him. For God's sake DALPA/ALPA grow a set and stand up for what has been negotiated. It's one thing to fight and fail, it's another to fail to fight - that's COWARDICE!
Ultimately I think all unions are doomed because they have lost sight of what they are supposed to represent and instead begin to enjoy the benefits/power of their position. They lose sight of what the line pilots want because they no longer are line pilots themselves.
If we don't ask (read challenge) the company about section 1, we won't get. We'll do exactly what FTB proposes in his stop light post, we'll end up once again at the receiving end of a bully's put down. Like a elementary school fight, the bully won't stop until you stand up to him. For God's sake DALPA/ALPA grow a set and stand up for what has been negotiated. It's one thing to fight and fail, it's another to fail to fight - that's COWARDICE!
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I usually try to agree with ACL, but in this case I can't. We (DALPA) aren't even trying to fight the RAH issue. It might upset the apple cart and imperil the cushy (read lucrative) relationship our DALPA leaders enjoy with Management.
Ultimately I think all unions are doomed because they have lost sight of what they are supposed to represent and instead begin to enjoy the benefits/power of their position. They lose sight of what the line pilots want because they no longer are line pilots themselves.
If we don't ask (read challenge) the company about section 1, we won't get. We'll do exactly what FTB proposes in his stop light post, we'll end up once again at the receiving end of a bully's put down. Like a elementary school fight, the bully won't stop until you stand up to him. For God's sake DALPA/ALPA grow a set and stand up for what has been negotiated. It's one thing to fight and fail, it's another to fail to fight - that's COWARDICE!
Ultimately I think all unions are doomed because they have lost sight of what they are supposed to represent and instead begin to enjoy the benefits/power of their position. They lose sight of what the line pilots want because they no longer are line pilots themselves.
If we don't ask (read challenge) the company about section 1, we won't get. We'll do exactly what FTB proposes in his stop light post, we'll end up once again at the receiving end of a bully's put down. Like a elementary school fight, the bully won't stop until you stand up to him. For God's sake DALPA/ALPA grow a set and stand up for what has been negotiated. It's one thing to fight and fail, it's another to fail to fight - that's COWARDICE!
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But if we terminate the RAH owned CHQ and Shuttle CPAs we'd be doing so with cause, like MESA was terminated, right?
...
Wouldn't that be doing Delta Air Lines management a huge favor getting rid of a future competitor that's using our money to fund their new operation and acquisitions? Not to mention, they want out of the RJ business, right?
...
Wouldn't that be doing Delta Air Lines management a huge favor getting rid of a future competitor that's using our money to fund their new operation and acquisitions? Not to mention, they want out of the RJ business, right?
If ALPA won't enforce the contract, maybe an individual grievance?
Has anyone tried to file?
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