Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
03-17-2011, 08:27 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
As I see it, the point being made is, all categories would be really senior, then really junior allowing less downbids and backfilling to furlough. You could uniformly cut capacity across the board with less of an effect wrt to cost and training. The flex would be much easier to manage for the company than the current pay system.
APA has new hires on the whale, we do not. Pay is the reason guys sit reserve on it when they can hold better trips on lower paying jets. Take that away and really junior pilots will get to fly the 744/777 as those guys that are currently doing no longer have a pay incentive.
APA has new hires on the whale, we do not. Pay is the reason guys sit reserve on it when they can hold better trips on lower paying jets. Take that away and really junior pilots will get to fly the 744/777 as those guys that are currently doing no longer have a pay incentive.
03-17-2011, 08:28 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Who's APA? American? If so, every junior pilot (read:12 year+ seniority/longevity) is on the -80 on reserve. Same with UAL and US. The only thing a 12+ year junior pilots can hold at each of these companies is reserve on the smallest/lowest paying plane they have. The current system certainly didn't stop them from furloughing.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't junior pilots at each of those Co's be paid more as their pay were based on longevity? They are now and have been effectively stuck at narrowbody pay scales for years. Thx-just trying to truly understand both arguments.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't junior pilots at each of those Co's be paid more as their pay were based on longevity? They are now and have been effectively stuck at narrowbody pay scales for years. Thx-just trying to truly understand both arguments.
Yessir, you betcha.
03-17-2011, 08:33 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
I thought you weren't discussing this anymore?
I wasn't making a value judgement on either system, but I was answering Columbia's question. I'm pretty sure people are driven by money towards higher-paying categories, which forces them to make QOL compromises. I think you and I agree on this point. And this is a pro-LBP observation. You do have some valid points, after all. There are other reasons I think LBP is not a great idea, but I wasn't debating them here. And neither one of us is saying 744's will be parked. But you said, in the context of that hypothetical, that it should show us all the value of a LBP system. Ufortunately, your timing is poor: it's pretty obvious that a LBP, by allowing people to distribute more evenly based on QOL decisions, would actualy create a less "stovepipe-like" environment where it would be easy to curtail flying, either fleet-by-fleet, or system-wide. And it would be a cinch to furlough, because the distribution of junior pilots would be more even across fleets.
I wasn't making a value judgement on either system, but I was answering Columbia's question. I'm pretty sure people are driven by money towards higher-paying categories, which forces them to make QOL compromises. I think you and I agree on this point. And this is a pro-LBP observation. You do have some valid points, after all. There are other reasons I think LBP is not a great idea, but I wasn't debating them here. And neither one of us is saying 744's will be parked. But you said, in the context of that hypothetical, that it should show us all the value of a LBP system. Ufortunately, your timing is poor: it's pretty obvious that a LBP, by allowing people to distribute more evenly based on QOL decisions, would actualy create a less "stovepipe-like" environment where it would be easy to curtail flying, either fleet-by-fleet, or system-wide. And it would be a cinch to furlough, because the distribution of junior pilots would be more even across fleets.
03-17-2011, 08:38 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,014
If we divorce pay from productivity the net result will be decreased compensation for pilots nearing their retirement years and increased pressure to outsource small jet flying.
03-17-2011, 08:39 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
03-17-2011, 08:39 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,324
Apparently it's still hot in the kitchen. My pictures are not distracting enough. Try this....
03-17-2011, 08:41 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,530
Distracting for ahem....2 minutes. Now what? 
03-17-2011, 08:43 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,324
03-17-2011, 08:43 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
But if this was strictly a money issue, you would look at the seniority list, and see it neatly stovepiped. Because it isn't we know that some of the people factor in some of the QOL decisions a little differently. But still, by and large, we all know that people chase the money to some extent. Which is all I'm arguing: money is a driver in people's decisions, and the seniority distribution relects it sufficiently. Under a LBP system, it should be more evenly distributed.
What happens to pay rates if the Company decides to park widebodies? It's a way for them to control payscales.
Finally, if BA has a longevity pay system, let's get feedback from their pilot group as to how it's working over there. Or has dalpa already had in depth discussions with them to see if it is something which makes sense?
03-17-2011, 08:50 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
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