Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
03-16-2011, 05:09 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
I do believe that TO is right in the same vein as LM. However, he has shown movement in the direction of listening to what the pilot group wants.
Despite my rants earlier today, I'm watching in earnest to see if there is actual response or just lip service.
Despite my rants earlier today, I'm watching in earnest to see if there is actual response or just lip service.
03-16-2011, 05:10 PM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
The definition says absolutely nothing about certificates.
Its anybody providing air transport by any means, directly or indirectly.
Republic Holdings is certainly that.
ALPA hashed and rehashed indeed.
Bottom line is they don't want to enforce that section of our contract. Too disruptive for "constructive engagement" purposes and too divisive for their dream of bringing all mainline and RJ pilots under the ALPA dues collector machine.
Its anybody providing air transport by any means, directly or indirectly.
Republic Holdings is certainly that.
ALPA hashed and rehashed indeed.
Bottom line is they don't want to enforce that section of our contract. Too disruptive for "constructive engagement" purposes and too divisive for their dream of bringing all mainline and RJ pilots under the ALPA dues collector machine.
Carl
03-16-2011, 05:11 PM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
So in short, you're saying money? How exactly are we going to just walk up to management out of Sec 6 & ask for raises? On what grounds would we do so? Can we even do it? IDK, that's why I'm asking.
Would you be happy if DALPA did ask for mid contract restoration, & the company said no? Just curious. Looking for pilot group input.
Would you be happy if DALPA did ask for mid contract restoration, & the company said no? Just curious. Looking for pilot group input.
I understand if you have never asked for a raise. There are probably many pilots at DAL in that boat. Here is how you do it: You walk into your boss and say "Boss, I need a raise."
03-16-2011, 05:12 PM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
03-16-2011, 05:13 PM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
This kind of thinking is a big part of what I think is wrong with DALPA. No successful company or organization achieves anything difficult and significant by sitting back and waiting to see what someone else does. That's ridiculous. We shouldn't be pinning our hopes to "pattern bargaining." We should be clearly defining our objective and going for it with everything we've got and with a sense of urgency. We have a lot of ground to make up. And we've been out of BK for almost half a decade! When do we start??
This!!!
Carl
03-16-2011, 05:19 PM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
The thing is, and this is imho, but it's a bankruptcy PWA.
Between pbs*, relaxed scope, pensions erased**, et. al., the pilots loaned out a lot to help the company be in position to succeed and there isn't much to give up.
We're already way way behind Southwest and our scope is horrible compared not only to SWA but to one of our outsourced carriers violating our scope- RAH.***
Back to angry birds and waiting for modern family.
*I still prefer PBS. yes, I know.
**Still don't want one, give me a 401K until that's taken away.
***And I know APA sued over RAH and lost but that was years ago. RAH has grown a lot to E190s and Airbuses. It's worth the fight.
Between pbs*, relaxed scope, pensions erased**, et. al., the pilots loaned out a lot to help the company be in position to succeed and there isn't much to give up.
We're already way way behind Southwest and our scope is horrible compared not only to SWA but to one of our outsourced carriers violating our scope- RAH.***
Back to angry birds and waiting for modern family.
*I still prefer PBS. yes, I know.
**Still don't want one, give me a 401K until that's taken away.
***And I know APA sued over RAH and lost but that was years ago. RAH has grown a lot to E190s and Airbuses. It's worth the fight.
03-16-2011, 05:21 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
03-16-2011, 05:27 PM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
So in short, you're saying money? How exactly are we going to just walk up to management out of Sec 6 & ask for raises? On what grounds would we do so? Can we even do it? IDK, that's why I'm asking.
Would you be happy if DALPA did ask for mid contract restoration, & the company said no? Just curious. Looking for pilot group input.
Would you be happy if DALPA did ask for mid contract restoration, & the company said no? Just curious. Looking for pilot group input.
The problem is that our union is incredibly weak. IMO, they are nearly indiscernable from management.
Carl
03-16-2011, 05:33 PM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
My guess is that the "What are you going to give up to get that?" was in the form of; "Are you willing to accept a an extension?" Maybe not, but the reality is that DAL will want a quid for a respectable raise. It is not giving something up, except to draw out the PWA.
The membership needs to decide if they would want to do that.
The membership needs to decide if they would want to do that.
We need to have the discussion. But our weak union leadership will NOT.
Carl
03-16-2011, 05:38 PM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Our union leadership goes in and simply says: "Bankruptcy wages are over. We're here to negotiate a significant pay bump outside of Section 6. We're willing to give nothing in return even though we're in mid contract. Just like we gave huge pay cuts to you for nothing in return outside of Section 6. If you agree, our pilots increased motivation will help with a lot of your p!ss poor managerial decision. If you disagree, our pilots lack of motivation to help will not go unnoticed by you."
The problem is that our union is incredibly weak. IMO, they are nearly indiscernable from management.
Carl
The problem is that our union is incredibly weak. IMO, they are nearly indiscernable from management.
Carl
I wish I felt differently than you just wrote, but I dont.
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