Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
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I'm gonna give this a modest thumbs up... but... I am pretty sure that we don't need AF's permission to fly BOS-CDG, but I guess we are getting their unused rights to fly into LHR, so I guess this is OK. And personally, I know that MCO is not a big money maker since it is the #1 tourist destination in this or any other solar system... so I would rather make higher yield elsewhere...
WRT to "permission" to fly BOS-CDG, we don't have to get "permission", but we do operate ALL trans-Atlantic flying via the JV....Which means every time you go to Europe, you are partly a KLM pilot and partly an AF pilot(without the stinky armpits.......maybe
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All the money from the trans-Atlantic flying is divided between KLM/AF/DAL, so it is all parties' best interest to make sure that all flying is profitable.
Last edited by shiznit; 03-16-2011 at 10:34 AM. Reason: Dang ACL, you are fast! (mine is better though!)
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Where is that JV agreement? I have tried reading section 1, and since I am not a lawyer, and not part of the smartest legal team to ever grace the airline industry, it is hard to make heads or tails of that legaleze...
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All B schedules are out except SEA & SLC 7er.
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Anybody worry that our careers will eventually become like the shipping (cruise/tankers) industry (majority of ships and crews are foreigners)? With all these Foreign JVs, codeshare and alliances (skyteam/oneworld) it seems like most of our flying is being farmed out little by little, sneaky.
Am I thinking about this in a wrong way?
This Republic thing has me concerned also. I think they own Airbuses now and a bunch of gates in DCA and LGA.
TYG
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There are new guys moving up the ranks, that's true. But they are fighting an uphill battle within.
Initially it was our own union that opposed the change in how we're paid, the "what are we willing to give up/not worth it/go pound sand" crowd.
Only after someone opened their eyes to compound interest over 30 years on a paycheck that is 2 weeks late did they consider presenting it to the company. Ironically the company response was "sure, we'll do it"
It's that type of stuff that makes it hard sometimes to see who is working for who's interest...
Cheers
George
Initially it was our own union that opposed the change in how we're paid, the "what are we willing to give up/not worth it/go pound sand" crowd.
Only after someone opened their eyes to compound interest over 30 years on a paycheck that is 2 weeks late did they consider presenting it to the company. Ironically the company response was "sure, we'll do it"
It's that type of stuff that makes it hard sometimes to see who is working for who's interest...
Cheers
George
Isn't that exactly what's supposed to happen: the union asks to change things after enough pilots show a desire? Just because something is clear to a demographic of pilots doesn't mean it's universally accepted.
I'm not saying there isn't some inherent inertia within the union: some reps have never seen a new idea they liked, until they're beaten over the head with it, or voted out over it. Over time, I've found that some of my reps were so consumed with the political game, and so interested in their place within the game, that it was hard to believe they actually were in a union at all, an completely absurd they should hold a "leadership" role.
Nonetheless, don't forget to account for the fact that there is inertia within the pilot group as a whole, and some good ideas have to wait to move forward until enough people agree they're good ideas.
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Acl,
You seem to be taking a beating on here nowadays. You have to understand that no one on here is afraid of interacting with the union to make things better. Many of us have tried, some have succeeded, others have chosen to find other ways to advance our profession.
Our problem is that the positions you state seem to mirror the positions of the union and we don't like them. As pilots, we hate inaction in the face of a perceived wrong. We hate the notion of just giving up and accepting things without a fight.
How is it that you and the union can predetermine what a neutral third party might determine? How is it that you know that the K Admin will lay out the case with the lawyers, give me the facts, and then somehow maybe I will understand why it is the way it is?
It just seems that things are a little too "predetermined" around here.
If things are they way they are, and many Delta pilots don't like the way it is, then it's time to find a way to change how we operate.
You seem to be taking a beating on here nowadays. You have to understand that no one on here is afraid of interacting with the union to make things better. Many of us have tried, some have succeeded, others have chosen to find other ways to advance our profession.
Our problem is that the positions you state seem to mirror the positions of the union and we don't like them. As pilots, we hate inaction in the face of a perceived wrong. We hate the notion of just giving up and accepting things without a fight.
How is it that you and the union can predetermine what a neutral third party might determine? How is it that you know that the K Admin will lay out the case with the lawyers, give me the facts, and then somehow maybe I will understand why it is the way it is?
It just seems that things are a little too "predetermined" around here.
If things are they way they are, and many Delta pilots don't like the way it is, then it's time to find a way to change how we operate.
No one knows, as you know what a court or arbitrator will decide, even if you have all of the facts on your side. Even with this statement, the crux of the matter of which we speak revolves around what an "air carrier" is and is not. It has been hashed and rehashed not just here but within the ranks of ALPA and the result is an "air carrier" is defined by certificate, not holder of the certificate, with regard to our section one.
If Republic, CHQ, Shuttle America, F9, MEC et al had in their business filings Republic Holdings DBA as Shuttle America, etc then you may have a argument, but as it stands there are merely the holding company of a lot of airlines. Yep, sneaky, and Brian Bedford probably calls most the shots, but it is the reality of the words in the legal document.
To answer your question; given the corporate structure, the wording of the PWA, the intent of that language, and said definitions, going to an arbitrator would be a waste of time. It does not preclude the fact, that if the majority position of the Delta pilots is to change it, focus on section one, and exert their will to these ends, then we should do that. Reality is that 12,300 pilots have a say, not just us.
Remember the reps elected are elected by us, are generally full of fire and brimstone when taking office, and then after they see the realities of each issue, the tone changes. Ask why? The answer should be self explanatory. The end game is better language that is more concise, which relies less of negotiator's notes and more on the language itself.
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Its really only a "compound interest" gain on the difference between the larger amount and the smaller amount one time for that the two week period where the changeover occurs. After that it equalizes out. Your next check is that much less that you can compound for the next two week period, which the larger 30th pay the next month has to make up for in lost interest, and the process starts all over again.
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That said, there is a contract awareness bulletin in the file library about it.
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Is it just me, or does it seem that few of the people on this forum are grasping the fact that there has been MAJOR turnover in the LEC ranks, which has resulted in ousting many long-term reps and installing VOTING reps that are very vocal and clearly not happy with the statsu quo?
There is much discontent in the makeup of the LEC's, they were elected on the fuel of discontent that is all over the pilot group. I'm very confident in the direction that my new reps have started off and the systems they are putting in place to right the ship and make the union more transparent and more effective in dealing with the issues facing the pilots of Delta Air Lines.
We'll see the reality when the Sec. 6 openers are exchanged and the tone that the union sets in regards to unifying the pilots. I'm willing to give this group the opportunity to show that our unhappiness and our votes for new leadership were effective and that the message is heard loud and clear to all.
There is much discontent in the makeup of the LEC's, they were elected on the fuel of discontent that is all over the pilot group. I'm very confident in the direction that my new reps have started off and the systems they are putting in place to right the ship and make the union more transparent and more effective in dealing with the issues facing the pilots of Delta Air Lines.
We'll see the reality when the Sec. 6 openers are exchanged and the tone that the union sets in regards to unifying the pilots. I'm willing to give this group the opportunity to show that our unhappiness and our votes for new leadership were effective and that the message is heard loud and clear to all.
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I absolutely realize that it is possible. But we need to go Dubinsky on them if they think they will roll the dice and even maybe casually roll in 4 or 500+ relative new hires blended into our Captain seniority levels. And Atlantic offers little beyond LHR. We've already sold our souls once for some slots, and now we are going to do it again? We need to do London to MCO with at least 3 or 4 widebodies a day, but at least one. Why can't we do ONE per day (and that fake flight number carry over with a plane change does NOT count) when the foreign carriers spam MCO with 4 engine jets hourly. And we can't do a single flight ourselves? UNSAT, and moreover a harbinger of how any VAtlantic deal would go. And the price for that might be a VAmerica windfall of epic proportions? Srsly?
And it goes beyond VA/VAmerica. At first glance, I don't believe we discussed this article on the L&G thread: Jet Airways Asked to Join Air France-KLM, Delta, Alitalia Venture - WSJ.com
Note that Jet Airways is being asked to join in the JV, not just SkyTeam. This is an Indian carrier, running new widebody aircraft between India and the US, and between its' Brussels hub, and EWR and JFK. The article says this:
"...Joining such an alliance would likely help Jet Airways to cost-effectively expand its overseas operations, leveraging the global network of the three other airlines instead of deploying its own aircraft..."
That almost sounded good: maybe we're delaying their growth, and at least splitting the revenues they're now poaching. But then again, if we want to bring them into the fold because they have a better product and lower costs, and we're afraid of them, then why wouldn't the JV try to favor... the better product and lower costs?
In my mind, the bottom line is that there are very some serious scope issues looming at the large-gauge ("Super-Premium" for you Northies) end of the spectrum, and we're certainly not hearing a whole lot about them.
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