Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
03-16-2011, 07:55 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
Posts: 1,724
Should the pilots unify around DALPA, or should DALPA unify the pilots?
IMHO DALPA's job is to unify the pilots, and it starts by listening and understanding.
I support DALPA, but for DALPA to succeed the opposition's concerns need to be addressed, not fought and ignored.
Cheers
George
03-16-2011, 07:59 AM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Yes, they do, but they do not fly jets larger than 76 seats for us on that certificate. Same stuff there 80. Now if the Republic Certificate was doing our flying, we would have a case since they are flying 190's for the MEC/F9 branded flying. Same thing with the F9 certificate.
Nice to jump in with a quip or two, but this is the reality.
To T, it is not a love fest of any level. It is reality, ya know where we all really live.
80, TO never said patterning was dead. RA stated it after we were patterned down in CH11. Of course the company wants it dead.
We (DALPA) will use any method to extract the most for our pilots.
Instead of being keyboard warriors, volunteer your time, go take your rep out for coffee or a dinner and ask them all of these questions. T, you got a real ball banger in NYC, go see what he says. Most likely he will agree with you, like me that the RJET thing sucks, but he will also tell you what reality is. Fight the correct fight, which is to change the wording in the contract, not to fight a structure with the current wording.
Nice to jump in with a quip or two, but this is the reality.
To T, it is not a love fest of any level. It is reality, ya know where we all really live.
80, TO never said patterning was dead. RA stated it after we were patterned down in CH11. Of course the company wants it dead.
We (DALPA) will use any method to extract the most for our pilots.
Instead of being keyboard warriors, volunteer your time, go take your rep out for coffee or a dinner and ask them all of these questions. T, you got a real ball banger in NYC, go see what he says. Most likely he will agree with you, like me that the RJET thing sucks, but he will also tell you what reality is. Fight the correct fight, which is to change the wording in the contract, not to fight a structure with the current wording.
BULL. You're not squirming out of this one.
The point is that chautauqua is openly shown as "single carrier" flying with frontier and republic even on that route map. The fact that S9 is omitted from the route map does not matter one bit. You tried to allude to something with the fact that S9 is omitted, but it didn't mean a thing. Chatauqua is openly shown as part of the "RAHbro" single carrier system, which is the whole issue.
You and I both saw LM openly say that pattern was dead. He kept stating that a new method would be found, but like crewpass... I'm still waiting.
I volunteer my time, and the deeper I go, the more dissapointed and convinced that the know-it-alls that are in ALPA that so haughtily self proclaim the party greatness at every chance are far too entrenched.
03-16-2011, 08:00 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Many do not care to see this, but in fact they have listened and first, have openly admitted that they have not taken input correctly, and second, are responding. I see an organization that responds to its members.
03-16-2011, 08:07 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
BULL. You're not squirming out of this one.
The point is that chautauqua is openly shown as "single carrier" flying with frontier and republic even on that route map. The fact that S9 is omitted from the route map does not matter one bit. You tried to allude to something with the fact that S9 is omitted, but it didn't mean a thing. Chatauqua is openly shown as part of the "RAHbro" single carrier system, which is the whole issue.
You and I both saw LM openly say that pattern was dead. He kept stating that a new method would be found, but like crewpass... I'm still waiting.
The point is that chautauqua is openly shown as "single carrier" flying with frontier and republic even on that route map. The fact that S9 is omitted from the route map does not matter one bit. You tried to allude to something with the fact that S9 is omitted, but it didn't mean a thing. Chatauqua is openly shown as part of the "RAHbro" single carrier system, which is the whole issue.
You and I both saw LM openly say that pattern was dead. He kept stating that a new method would be found, but like crewpass... I'm still waiting.
03-16-2011, 08:28 AM
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Now we have to see where passengers on these new routes from the east coast to OMA/MCI connect to. I find it interesting that CHQ will be operating DCI flights to a city that F9 uses as a focus city. Hmmmmmmm...........
03-16-2011, 08:30 AM
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Position: DAL Widebody
Posts: 104
Typically the (Wilson) polling results get distributed to the LEC Reps during closed meetings. For confidentiality, the results are literally signed out to each rep individually (with their name atop each packet) during the meeting and only distributed during a small window – amongst all other agenda business. Each packet is then collected and accounted for. The packets are edited (for size, presumably; content?). The debate over the nature of poll questions and how they are worded is ongoing.
My question is…do these polls really get used ‘behind the curtain?’ I ask your opinions/experiences because it seems, from what I have observed, the Negotiating Committee, in concert with the MEC Administration - not the LEC reps - are the real decision makers on what is being TA’d. Referencing an earlier discussion on TA’s being impossible to change/renegotiate once agreed to – what ends up in a TA can even shock an LEC rep when it hits the MEC table. In my personal opinion, it seems the LEC reps aren’t involved in the process as much as we would like to think – which suggests the line pilots aren’t either.
03-16-2011, 08:30 AM
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Another issue, why does DAL continue to fund a competitor? Is it a double edged sword? Is it better to pay RAH to operate DCI flights on routes that compete with F9 in hopes of taking the revenue over F9, rather then use a different DCI carrier?
03-16-2011, 08:36 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
DPA has some good idea, I even admit that, but the reality is that everyone that I have talked to that is "pro dpa" has issues with people within alpa and not the structure. Reality is the structure of the independents mirrors DALPA and CAPA loosely mirrors ALPA. If you want and demand change, work for it within the structure that is in place, because after all, DPA will have a similar structure. Why? You can answer that.
The only difference is that DPA would come with the baggage that alpa national has.... and it is not necessarily true what you say here.. I have a problem with the structure at the national association...
03-16-2011, 08:40 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Typically the (Wilson) polling results get distributed to the LEC Reps during closed meetings. For confidentiality, the results are literally signed out to each rep individually (with their name atop each packet) during the meeting and only distributed during a small window – amongst all other agenda business. Each packet is then collected and accounted for. The packets are edited (for size, presumably; content?). The debate over the nature of poll questions and how they are worded is ongoing.
My question is…do these polls really get used ‘behind the curtain?’ I ask your opinions/experiences because it seems, from what I have observed, the Negotiating Committee, in concert with the MEC Administration - not the LEC reps - are the real decision makers on what is being TA’d. Referencing an earlier discussion on TA’s being impossible to change/renegotiate once agreed to – what ends up in a TA can even shock an LEC rep when it hits the MEC table. In my personal opinion, it seems the LEC reps aren’t involved in the process as much as we would like to think – which suggests the line pilots aren’t either.
My question is…do these polls really get used ‘behind the curtain?’ I ask your opinions/experiences because it seems, from what I have observed, the Negotiating Committee, in concert with the MEC Administration - not the LEC reps - are the real decision makers on what is being TA’d. Referencing an earlier discussion on TA’s being impossible to change/renegotiate once agreed to – what ends up in a TA can even shock an LEC rep when it hits the MEC table. In my personal opinion, it seems the LEC reps aren’t involved in the process as much as we would like to think – which suggests the line pilots aren’t either.
Do you think it is wise strategically for those polling results to get out to the public, and to us? I say heck no, because then the company knows exactly where we are as a group and how to effectively marginalize us. They need to be kept secret.
As for the second part, of the MEC meetings that I have witnessed, the Reps would take great offense to your assertion. These Reps know what they want, and sometimes that is in line with this or that, but the reality is they direct the MEC, and frankly that is the way this Administration's Master Chair sees it.
These Reps are type A's and will not just rubber stamp everything. Call your reps. You elected them for a reason, and if this were to ever go on, I am very certain the majority of the MEC Reps would call BS, abet quietly and in closed session. Why? because somethings are better not aired to the public and to the company.
03-16-2011, 08:41 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
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