Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
03-14-2011, 06:52 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: A330B
Posts: 102
If a carrier that performs category A or category C operations acquires an aircraft that would cause the Company to no longer be in compliance with the provisions of Section 1 D. 2. c., the Company will terminate such operations on the date that is the later of the date such aircraft is placed in revenue service, or nine months from the date that the Company first became aware of the potential acquisition.
Hopefully this makes it clearer to you. I'm sure someone else will be able to post better contract language that forbids RAH (an Airbus/190 operator) from doing our flying.
03-14-2011, 07:12 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,538
Well something is going to have to give. The LCC's and current (as well as future) upstarts have absolutely staggering numbers of narrowbody planes on order and option. There is not, nor will there be, room in the domestic system for them. And yet we fiddle while our domestic burns even as we brag about our 1.4 Billion profit and act helpless as a foreign megalomanic (among others) ramps up one of the biggest future threats we will ever see right under our noses.
03-14-2011, 07:16 PM
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Focus on A+14 is IMO the way to get this done. I saw it done very effectively at a former airline. I understand the thinking with "D-0" (if the flight leaves on time, it's more likely to arrive on time)... and that should be part of the equation. But the obsession over this one aspect, and especially the pressure being put on various departments (especially the gate agents) is IMO counterproductive and a big part of the reason we are not succeeding.
03-14-2011, 07:17 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,538
After scanning through Section 1 I think Section 1D specifically applies to RAH. esspecially this part:
If a carrier that performs category A or category C operations acquires an aircraft that would cause the Company to no longer be in compliance with the provisions of Section 1 D. 2. c., the Company will terminate such operations on the date that is the later of the date such aircraft is placed in revenue service, or nine months from the date that the Company first became aware of the potential acquisition.
Hopefully this makes it clearer to you. I'm sure someone else will be able to post better contract language that forbids RAH (an Airbus/190 operator) from doing our flying.
If a carrier that performs category A or category C operations acquires an aircraft that would cause the Company to no longer be in compliance with the provisions of Section 1 D. 2. c., the Company will terminate such operations on the date that is the later of the date such aircraft is placed in revenue service, or nine months from the date that the Company first became aware of the potential acquisition.
Hopefully this makes it clearer to you. I'm sure someone else will be able to post better contract language that forbids RAH (an Airbus/190 operator) from doing our flying.
03-14-2011, 07:21 PM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
The gubment doesn't track D-0, only arrival time.
Now that you know the DOT doesn't track D-0, we should look for our management to stop stressing over it...right?
Carl
Carl
03-14-2011, 07:24 PM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Once upon a time the language applied to the holding company, but I believe was changed to the meaningless "certificate" instead (how that gaping hole got past the best and brightest ALPA lawyers is beyond me). So now little "air group" wanna be's can play the separate certificate trick which hurts not only our pilot group but our company and shareholders as well because we subsidize fare and yield trashing competitors who will, as a direct result of the nature of outsourcing, always have lower costs than we do because their pilot groups wouldn't exist in the first place if they weren't the lowest bidder. We then subsidize their right hand as they use their left hand (and its super low labor cost) against our company.
Carl
03-14-2011, 07:27 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Flying the SEC
Posts: 2,350
The government/DOT does not even track "D-0." The metric is A+14. If the flight blocks in by scheduled arrival time + 14 minutes, it is considered an "on time" flight by the DOT. If it blocks in later than that, it is late.
Focus on A+14 is IMO the way to get this done. I saw it done very effectively at a former airline. I understand the thinking with "D-0" (if the flight leaves on time, it's more likely to arrive on time)... and that should be part of the equation. But the obsession over this one aspect, and especially the pressure being put on various departments (especially the gate agents) is IMO counterproductive and a big part of the reason we are not succeeding.
Focus on A+14 is IMO the way to get this done. I saw it done very effectively at a former airline. I understand the thinking with "D-0" (if the flight leaves on time, it's more likely to arrive on time)... and that should be part of the equation. But the obsession over this one aspect, and especially the pressure being put on various departments (especially the gate agents) is IMO counterproductive and a big part of the reason we are not succeeding.
03-14-2011, 07:41 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Once upon a time the language applied to the holding company, but I believe was changed to the meaningless "certificate" instead (how that gaping hole got past the best and brightest ALPA lawyers is beyond me). So now little "air group" wanna be's can play the separate certificate trick which hurts not only our pilot group but our company and shareholders as well because we subsidize fare and yield trashing competitors who will, as a direct result of the nature of outsourcing, always have lower costs than we do because their pilot groups wouldn't exist in the first place if they weren't the lowest bidder. We then subsidize their right hand as they use their left hand (and its super low labor cost) against our company.
A single seniority list makes me think they're 1 airline flying both permitted and not permitted aircraft.
I mean how is this different than RAH acquiring 757s and flying those under their own code? Dealing with Section 1 is nowhere near is interesting nor as fun as 23 or 3 or what have you, I'm not very versed.
Just wish it was as simple as this scope language... that belongs to Republic:
D. Scope
1. This Agreement covers the company, any subsidiary of the
company, the company’s parent, any subsidiary of the
company’s parent and any future airline certificate(s) created as
a subsidiary of the company or subsidiary of the company’s
parent.
2. Except as otherwise provided in this Agreement, all present and
future flying (including that international flying which originates
or terminates within the United States or its possessions) and all
charters, ferry flights (not including ferry flights of newly acquired
aircraft prior to being placed in revenue service),
training flights, test flights, (except test flights assigned to
management), or other utilization of aircraft owned or leased by
the company, the company’s parent or any subsidiary of the
company or subsidiary of the company’s parent shall be
performed by pilots on the Chautauqua Airlines Pilots’ System
Seniority List in accordance with the terms and conditions of this
Agreement or any other applicable agreement between the
company, the company’s parent or any subsidiary of the
company’s parent and the International Brotherhood of
Teamsters, Airline Division.
3. The Company, Subsidiary of the Company, the Company’s
Parent or Subsidiary of the Parent shall not establish any new
airline (alter ego or otherwise) or acquire a controlling interest in
any carrier whether directly or through the Parent or another
Subsidiary of the Parent, and maintain it as a separate carrier.
A “Controlling Interest” or “Control” means the ownership of an
equity interest representing more than fifty percent (50%) of the
outstanding capital stock of an entity or voting securities
representing more than fifty percent (50%) of the total voting
power of outstanding securities then entitled to vote generally in
the election of such entity’s board of directors or other governing
body.
4. The Company will not transfer aircraft, or operating authority to
its Parent, a Subsidiary of the Parent, or to a Subsidiary of the
Company for the purpose of evading the terms of this
Agreement. The Company will also not establish a third party
leasing device to evade the terms of this agreement.
1. This Agreement covers the company, any subsidiary of the
company, the company’s parent, any subsidiary of the
company’s parent and any future airline certificate(s) created as
a subsidiary of the company or subsidiary of the company’s
parent.
2. Except as otherwise provided in this Agreement, all present and
future flying (including that international flying which originates
or terminates within the United States or its possessions) and all
charters, ferry flights (not including ferry flights of newly acquired
aircraft prior to being placed in revenue service),
training flights, test flights, (except test flights assigned to
management), or other utilization of aircraft owned or leased by
the company, the company’s parent or any subsidiary of the
company or subsidiary of the company’s parent shall be
performed by pilots on the Chautauqua Airlines Pilots’ System
Seniority List in accordance with the terms and conditions of this
Agreement or any other applicable agreement between the
company, the company’s parent or any subsidiary of the
company’s parent and the International Brotherhood of
Teamsters, Airline Division.
3. The Company, Subsidiary of the Company, the Company’s
Parent or Subsidiary of the Parent shall not establish any new
airline (alter ego or otherwise) or acquire a controlling interest in
any carrier whether directly or through the Parent or another
Subsidiary of the Parent, and maintain it as a separate carrier.
A “Controlling Interest” or “Control” means the ownership of an
equity interest representing more than fifty percent (50%) of the
outstanding capital stock of an entity or voting securities
representing more than fifty percent (50%) of the total voting
power of outstanding securities then entitled to vote generally in
the election of such entity’s board of directors or other governing
body.
4. The Company will not transfer aircraft, or operating authority to
its Parent, a Subsidiary of the Parent, or to a Subsidiary of the
Company for the purpose of evading the terms of this
Agreement. The Company will also not establish a third party
leasing device to evade the terms of this agreement.
03-14-2011, 07:50 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
I really see that when you come into ATL 1 hour early and you won't get into the gate for 55 minutes so to a passenger we're 55 minutes late - unless you repeat we're way early, all gates occupied, for the sake of your luggage it's best when we don't swap gates, we're in the gate 5 minutes early.
I had an old man getting off a plane unload his frustrations on me for being late. We seriously, no lie, 15 minutes early and we never stopped moving from landing to the gate. It just took 20 minutes to deplane but I don't think he was talking about that, to him, we were late and he needed to have it out with the pilot.
03-14-2011, 09:23 PM
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Is something going on with ASA that they could pull a mesa styled "performance card" on them? I don't know a single thing about ASA's operation other than that I've flown on them for DH'd and non-reving and they're regular. like me. But something about maintenance and crew staffing issues.
Just curious, some of you obviously were at ASA and would know if that's true.
Just curious, some of you obviously were at ASA and would know if that's true.
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