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Old 03-12-2011, 05:56 AM
  #61341  
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Originally Posted by forgot to bid
For that glorious day when the TA is announced, we ought to assign teams by nb and wb line holder and reserve and jump into stuff like section 23 then post. may even be worth hiding it in a far off thread.

When that day comes, do you think that we will be told that it was the best they could do, it's a great TA and go ahead and sign it?
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Old 03-12-2011, 06:24 AM
  #61342  
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Originally Posted by capncrunch
When that day comes, do you think that we will be told that it was the best they could do, it's a great TA and go ahead and sign it?
Isn't that just human nature? If you were on the Neg Com and worked your butt off and finally got a TA would you not say you did the best you could and recommend it? Humans in general and pilots in particular don't like to admit failure or weakness.

The RLA punishes labor for not coming to an agreement. When one side can just run out the clock till circumstances are more favorable it behooves a team to bring back something with improvements before the market turns bad and unfavorable.

It goes back to the question ACL posted a while back. Would you want something medium now and scheduled pluses or wait years looking for the big score. only works when P>0.
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Old 03-12-2011, 06:25 AM
  #61343  
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Originally Posted by capncrunch
When that day comes, do you think that we will be told that it was the best they could do, it's a great TA and go ahead and sign it?
Yep... and 61% will look at section 3.. go "cool.. a payraise" and vote yes.
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Old 03-12-2011, 06:28 AM
  #61344  
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Originally Posted by satchip
Isn't that just human nature? If you were on the Neg Com and worked your butt off and finally got a TA would you not say you did the best you could and recommend it? Humans in general and pilots in particular don't like to admit failure or weakness.

The RLA punishes labor for not coming to an agreement. When one side can just run out the clock till circumstances are more favorable it behooves a team to bring back something with improvements before the market turns bad and unfavorable.

It goes back to the question ACL posted a while back. Would you want something medium now and scheduled pluses or wait years looking for the big score. only works when P>0.
Yes you are correct that it is human nature. I would rather they publish the TA and shut the hell up about it. Let it stand on it's own. If sections need "explanation" then they are too complicated and too subject to lawyering. We are paying those dudes $500/hour to take a dump as long as they are thinking about alpa, so they can sit there and write a layman's TA... then go back to wherever lawyers come from.

Oh, and it doesn't work if n=0 either..
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Old 03-12-2011, 07:11 AM
  #61345  
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Originally Posted by satchip
I

It goes back to the question ACL posted a while back. Would you want something medium now and scheduled pluses or wait years looking for the big score. only works when P>0.
Is getting to a comparable southwest contract "medium" or "the big score?" Speaking of, anyone know when their contract is amendable? I'm assuming they are also looking for medium gains at a minimum.
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Old 03-12-2011, 07:27 AM
  #61346  
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Originally Posted by tsquare
Yes you are correct that it is human nature. I would rather they publish the TA and shut the hell up about it. Let it stand on it's own. If sections need "explanation" then they are too complicated and too subject to lawyering. We are paying those dudes $500/hour to take a dump as long as they are thinking about alpa, so they can sit there and write a layman's TA... then go back to wherever lawyers come from.

Oh, and it doesn't work if n=0 either..
Well we can't control that, can we. Maybe in Nov 2012...
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Old 03-12-2011, 07:32 AM
  #61347  
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Originally Posted by satchip
Well we can't control that, can we. Maybe in Nov 2012...
I certainly hope so..
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Old 03-12-2011, 07:34 AM
  #61348  
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Originally Posted by Columbia
Is getting to a comparable southwest contract "medium" or "the big score?" Speaking of, anyone know when their contract is amendable? I'm assuming they are also looking for medium gains at a minimum.
I have no idea. It all depends on the environment in which you are negotiating, the competition, and other factors. I just have a feeling that there is a segment of the pilot population that if the TA came back with the Moon, the would demand the Stars too.

What they fail to factor is that the Moon compounded for x years may equal the Moon and Stars by the time you get just Alpha Centauri.
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Old 03-12-2011, 07:40 AM
  #61349  
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Originally Posted by satchip
I have no idea. It all depends on the environment in which you are negotiating, the competition, and other factors. I just have a feeling that there is a segment of the pilot population that if the TA came back with the Moon, the would demand the Stars too.

What they fail to factor is that the Moon compounded for x years may equal the Moon and Stars by the time you get just Alpha Centauri.
Agreed-however, depending upon time to retirement, some/many/most may not have "X" years. I guess polling results will determine.
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Old 03-12-2011, 08:09 AM
  #61350  
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Originally Posted by satchip
I just have a feeling that there is a segment of the pilot population that if the TA came back with the Moon, the would demand the Stars too.
I understand what you are saying but I have a feeling the TA will include neither the moon or the stars.
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