forgot to bid

Maybe she was. But Tom Petty probably was too when he did halftime a few years ago but he rocked.


But thats probably because Tom Petty rocks.

So how about some Tom Petty and Bo Diddley?

forgot to bid

Okay, if you have a D on your rotation that's a deadhead, should I believe that a G is ground transportation deadhead? Saw in open time a trip that had a G from MEM to Greenville's paint shop and it was NOT a short ride.

johnso29

Agreed!!

TANSTAAFL

What national thinks is good for us, or Moak? That statement was way to open ended. What are the specifics that are for the greater good of the industry and who exactly gets to define them?

volav8r1

It's about 2.5 to 3 hours depending on the driver and traffic. They used to drive us back and forth quite a few times. It's really not that bad. I used to do those Greenville runs a lot when we were sending a DC-9 a week thru there. Of course the only time we would get a ride down or back was when the Saab was delayed significantly or it had cancelled all together....which, come to think of it, was pretty often. The guy in G-Ville that runs the limo company will invite you out on his boat and to his house for beers. He took us (Captain and I) to the Greenville Yacht Club one night for their staek Buffet. He introduced us to everybody in town as his Delta Pilot friends. It was hillarious. The food was not quite as funny!

Bucking Bar

In the union business, Unity means representing all pilots with one, authoritative, voice to management. Unity is having the absolute control over the productive capacity of the Company.

slowplay

Your treatise on "unity" is intriguing. So if ALPA had absolute control over the productive capacity of Delta, how would that "unity" change the current Delta pilot economics, bargaining, and contract environment? Please address in the context of continued downsizing of the RJ fleet and the competitive environment where Delta is making a 6% margin, we don't have a national contract or deregulation induced labor protective provisions. In other words, start from where we really are.

thanks!

CVG767A

What a moron! I guess is this is what we can expect from a politician, though--

Gov. Dayton wants to spur competition in order to drive down ticket prices, and he wants us to increase our presence up there at the same time. I'm guessing he wasn't a business major in college...

forgot to bid

The trip I saw was a dhd ATL-MEM, drive to Greenville, then immediately fly to IND for a short overnight and then deadhead back. The dhd and drive were all doing the Super Bowl, don't know why that wasn't picked up on a WS.

Bucking Bar

Slow,

Your question deserves an objective answer based on economic analysis. ALPA has not done the economic analysis. I'm arguing we should undertake such a study. Your question also has political ramifications. I'll answer that first and get to the economics second.

First, your question is a bit off with regard to downsizing the RJ fleet. The small jet fleet is being renewed with larger, more efficient jets at both the regional and the mainline level. We are fortunate to have some international flying coming on line (for now) and we are fortunate we are performing that flying. ALPA members at Comair are having their careers destroyed while non union carriers are hiring and upgrading to perform "our" (meaning Delta's) work. By Available Seat Mile measures there is scant difference in the available seat miles performed by our regional carriers. As a union, we can't judge our success based purely on external economics which we have no control over. I'm just talking about what we control and that is where my answer will be aimed.

The point of your question is well taken if rephrased, "What would you do with a powerful union?" True, there are limited economic gains we could make without making the Company non competitive if we take an instant snapshot of the current economic environment.

But there are other tangible benefits to ALPA members. For one, guys like ACL are down a decade on where their longevity should be, Both Delta and Northwest pilots were furloughed while their airlines were hiring pilots with very low experience to fill the need to provide outsourced flying. Any time one part of the airline is furloughing pilots, while another division is hiring, that history indicates failure of unity.

ALPA itself suffers from declining relevance. When you and I got our wings, our ALPA membership was also a special right of passage. Contrast that with the reality of today, where ALPA membership mostly means stagnation while those at non ALPA carriers enjoy career growth and security. Most pilots (yes a majority) of those in 121 service have decided against ALPA representation and many are enthusiastic about it since airlines like SkyWest openly tout lack of ALPA representation as a primary factor in their rapid success. Nearly 1,000 percent growth at the expense of ALPA members is nothing to sneeze at.

Your point (if I might be so bold to paraphrase) that a weak union serves it's pilots as well as can be expected in this economy fails to recognize that a union's primary function for it members survival as well as its own is job security. A union should protect us from alter ego replacement. A union's actions should not result in DC9 Captains becoming First Officers and First Officers being unable to upgrade when the Company re-fleets.

ALPA's divide and cross collateralize economic model has a price. That price is seen in:

• Sub standard employment rights compared to other employee groups on the property
• Management's ability to destroy longevity via use of alter ego constructs
• Management's ability to destroy seniority via use of alter ego costructs
• Loss of member's job security
• Members' career stagnation

You and I will have to watch the history of this unfold to know if ALPA has reached a tipping point where pilots decide voting against ALPA representation benefits them. I do not recall a threat to our union as great as the DPA in some time (maybe you can educate me there).

Regardless, the fact exists that a significant number of ALPA members are unhappy with the representation they are receiving from our union. The Chief complaint is a conflict of interest that we, ourselves, created. (this comment is not aimed at you, or anyone in particular) but I find it morally repugnant that we would allow our union to trade one member's job to benefit another member. We should work to right that wrong.

So no, I'm not promising a chicken in every pot in today's economic environment. What I'm stating is that by taking Behnke seriously when he stated "when one pilot has a problem, we all have a problem" we can work to create a career that is more stable, more equitable, more fair, and more financially rewarding.

How many billions has management lost on outsourcing schemes? If we just relieved them of that burden it would be something. To adequately answer your question, I would ask ALPA to start eh following economic analysis:

• Get a copy of all the agreements for outsourced flying
• Learn how much is spent in duplicate administrative and management costs
• Learn where the real efficiencies are
• Figure out where we would need to be on a competing proposal
• Learn where Delta needs to be to want to return to its core business

I don't know what the results would be, I have some pretty decent guesses. I fly airplanes for a living. This analysis IS ALPA's JOB.

Question for you, was the sale of Compass' jobs worth $16 million in credits we never received the benefit from? I know it wasn't your call, but your opinion is at the core of this question, what is unity worth?

Very respectfully,
Bucking Bar