sailingfun

I believe he is talking about the very first offer DALPA made before we even started negotiations. That offer was made public in a statement by Lee Moak and Stevens acknowledged the offer in another statement. It was a simple ratio that left every pilot at both airlines within .5 percent of their original position.
The arbitration opener by was quite different however it was agreed that the first attempt would not be used in arbitration if it came to that..

deltabound

The Cranky Flier has some interesting stuff to say about Delta's upgrades that are coming online.

Apparently, Delta is going to add the ability to see "upgrade" and "standby" lists to their website, just like you can currently see at the gate. This will be coming soon to your mobile device, as well. Neat.

Other stuff here too: http://crankyflier.com/2009/03/18/de...-installation/

SIDENOTE: (Know what I love about this thread? As long as it's remotely connected to Delta in any way, shape, or form, there's no such thing as "thread creep")

alfaromeo

There we go, when you are out of ideas, then you go for the "I'm brave and you are cowardly" argument. Wait, how long before we hear "Grow a pair"? I love it. Couldn't you turn the tables and say that the company was too cowardly to go to arbitration to get their way 100%? Didn't both sides compromise?

Scope is important but it is not any more important than the rest of the contract. What if you had scope completely to your specifications, but your pay rate was $10 an hour? Look at the rest of the contract and guess what life would be like without that section.

I am sorry you are sick about it. How sick would you be if we had gone to arbitration and lost? That is my point. Arbitration has risks. The upside of arbitration would have been that we prevented the use of 6 seats on about 25 aircraft for a year or two. The downside was that the company's view of the contract was permanently upheld and it would be one more thing to negotiate for in Section 6.

The NW MEC took a risk by rejecting a known deal and going to arbitration. The gained nothing on the seniority list and lost a lot of money as the second contract wasn't as good as the first. You have to evaluate whether that risk was worth it or not. Pretending that there is no risk and no downside is just silly.

Carl Spackler

Old story/rumor. Show us the agreement that kept all pilots within .5% of their original position, then show us the public statement by Lee Moak, then show us the acknowledement by Dave Stevens.

Carl

acl65pilot

Just remember that if section 1 is non existent or open to many loose interpretations, the rest of the contract is in jeopardy. Strength comes from numbers and a percentage of a companies flying. That comes from a strong scope section. Not just for small jets but for the international ones too.
I see the quality of our contract and the gains that we can expect directly related to this section.

Carl Spackler

Probably no point to this because you so clearly do not listen, but here goes. Nowhere do I say: "I'm brave." I said our union (which means all of us) was cowardly in not even fighting.

I don't know if it was cowardly or not, but the company was very smart in leveraging their losing hand. The advice from their attorneys was most certainly that their case was weak. But instead of getting nothing for their weak case, they "gave in" on a no-furlough clause, "gave in" on accepting our language while we accepted a Scope cave-in. If you think that was smart negotiations on the part of our union, I can't help you.

Here's why Scope is the most important Section. If the pay was $10 an hour, we could all make the decision of whether to work here or not. With a bad Scope, the best contract provisions in the world wouldn't matter because the company could simply make them NOT APPLY TO YOU! You simply would never know when the ceiling was about to fall on you...kind of like United right now with the Aer-Lingus nightmare.

Sure that would hurt. It always hurts to lose. One way to never lose, is to never fight. I submit that you have to know what is of paramount importance, then take an objective look at the strength of your hand, then fight if the aforementioned criteria points to it. Our union did that, and decided not to even fight. THAT is what I'm sick about.

You have framed the choices we faced accurately IMO. It's all about your priorities, and your ability to accurately assess the strength of your hand.

This has been covered and covered. Everything you state is BS. No matter how many times you usual suspects keep saying this, it will never make it true...except in your little minds.

Carl

Carl Spackler

Exactly correct.

Carl

newKnow

Dude,

What are you talking about? A substantial portion of the NWA list gained 2-4% in relative seniority. A small portion got even better than DOH. Finally, there are no fences on anything except for the 777 and the 747-400's.

The SLI is over and I hate to bring it back up. But, what I hate even more is that you seem to be trying to revise history and make it seem like NWA ALPA should have taken the DAL ALPA proposal. I admit that I don't know what that proposal was, but I'm fairly sure it was worse than what we have now.

So, please use some other example of why you are scared to go to arbitration for fear of losing, because I doubt that NWA ALPA's decision to go to arbitration is a proper one.

New K Now

bigdaddie

I have absolutely nothing of interst to post. Let's see: worked on my taxes, worked in the yard, and oh yea, watched AIG CEO get blasted. Should have let the bastards go bankrupt in the first place!

I think I'm gonna pull the rip cord and pursue my dream -> opening a brewery. Serving great beer and spicy, garlic infested food.

Naw, I'm just full of the smelly stuff like always. Now I've got to go get that tatto of the wild widget.

Yes, you wasted your time reading this post. Just like the f..k.ng four training events I've spent on Virgina Ave. in the last year.

Cheers.

I think I'm going "Airline Pilot."

NWA320pilot

Not me I am over 1% lower than original relative seniority. An in the 2020 I will have lost over 13%.......