Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
01-19-2011, 07:46 AM
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Why can't you stop at making this very important point...
...without getting stuck in this ridiculous and divisive crap?
Honestly, you're not going to convince the DAL group that your contract was better. Maybe it goes to the heart of the SLI discussion, and maybe some of the beliefs on either side qualify as "faith-based". Maybe it's because you voted overwhelmingly for the JCBA that we don't believe you, or maybe it's simply because all pilots want to believe they are better that we never will believe you. Regardless of the reasons we won't buy into this, the truth is we don't care what the QOL was a Northwest. And I don't see how anyone should care.
...without getting stuck in this ridiculous and divisive crap?
Honestly, you're not going to convince the DAL group that your contract was better. Maybe it goes to the heart of the SLI discussion, and maybe some of the beliefs on either side qualify as "faith-based". Maybe it's because you voted overwhelmingly for the JCBA that we don't believe you, or maybe it's simply because all pilots want to believe they are better that we never will believe you. Regardless of the reasons we won't buy into this, the truth is we don't care what the QOL was a Northwest. And I don't see how anyone should care.
That's because there is no benefit in looking backwards. All we have is the Delta contract, and we need to figure which parts need to be modified, and which parts need to be torn out, spit on, and burned to the ground. This is the only way in which it's interesting to talk about specific points in the fNWA contracts that could be useful, but then again, it's not any more interesting than the good points of the FedEx contract, or the Continental contract, or any contract, because we only need be focused on making the best Delta contract possible.
If the fNWA was that much better, good for you. I hope you enjoyed while you had it. Unfortunately, that's not the contract you live under. So why not talk about a better contract for all Delta pilots, including you of course, and leave it at that?
If the fNWA was that much better, good for you. I hope you enjoyed while you had it. Unfortunately, that's not the contract you live under. So why not talk about a better contract for all Delta pilots, including you of course, and leave it at that?
01-19-2011, 07:46 AM
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01-19-2011, 07:48 AM
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01-19-2011, 07:55 AM
No longer cares
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JABDIP:
I'm sorry your W2 has declined. I want every DAL pilot's W2 to go up ... way up. But I will not accept pilots being less productive, flying less, or paying people to stay home. Our company simply can not do that and expect to compete.
I'd rather we stay lean and mean.
I'm sorry your W2 has declined. I want every DAL pilot's W2 to go up ... way up. But I will not accept pilots being less productive, flying less, or paying people to stay home. Our company simply can not do that and expect to compete.
I'd rather we stay lean and mean.
What is more offensive is that when you look at short call coverage during the summer months, you might see 2 or 3 guys/day.. (when, I might add we are throttle to the stop on flying...) and in the winter when we have 10 or 12 guys/day available, they put 5 on SC. How does that make any sense? Oh yeah... just in case.
If anything, it's abusive, because of the ridiculous requirement that available>required in order to drop/move X days. Now there are 13/day required to cover less flights, whereas in the summer that number is significantly less with MORE flights... Lean and mean is all well and good in theory, but in practice, there MUST be some fat to absorb (IROP) times like the company just went thru. Personally, I couldn't care less if there are guys sitting around doing nothing for periods of time. It's the cost of doing the business we do. SWA is about to learn all about it.
01-19-2011, 08:02 AM
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[/COLOR]
Sink,
Bar was the Gentleman that brought up the issue of fNWA pilots forgetting about the improvements we received with the DAL contract. Just one question for you: How would you like to fly the same hours for the next year and make less money than you made the last year and fly 40 more days this year to make less money for the same amount of time?????? In a post many moons ago I stated it something like this: I averaged $1350 per day of flying under fNWA rules and $990 per day of flying under DAL rules. Which do you want to do????
Your points in red above support my statement of having blinders on. You have 5000 pilots that have been under a different contract and can compare it to the current contract today that we are under, that could be an incredible resource as to how to improve the existing contract, but we need to just forget about that, no one should care. To that I will say my measuring stick is working 23 years under NWA contracts. That's what I have to base my judgements of the current DAL contract on. You have your basis of __ years of former DAL contracts to use as your measuring stick. 99% of the time our comments are taken as us trying to say we or ours was better, that is not the case here. I just want to see things get better in our current contract. As to the contracts of ohter airlines, we lived the fNWA contract so we knew it. Reading the others is not living it and not so easy to compare contract to contract. Live it for a few years then you can make a judgement.
YOur comment in blue is an excellnt point but then you turn around and say you should not care what was in the fNWA contract, sort of contradicting.
In bringing up these issues I hope to spur some interest in your comment in green. I do want to make the current contract better. Does it not spur any interest about your contract in that I worked less days, for the same amount of monthly hours, at an hourly rate less than I am making now, but had a larger W-2 for the year. Simple poll question: Would you like to work more or less days for the same amount of yearly income with no penalty to the company??? O-more days O- less days Which one do you check.
Sink,
Bar was the Gentleman that brought up the issue of fNWA pilots forgetting about the improvements we received with the DAL contract. Just one question for you: How would you like to fly the same hours for the next year and make less money than you made the last year and fly 40 more days this year to make less money for the same amount of time?????? In a post many moons ago I stated it something like this: I averaged $1350 per day of flying under fNWA rules and $990 per day of flying under DAL rules. Which do you want to do????
Your points in red above support my statement of having blinders on. You have 5000 pilots that have been under a different contract and can compare it to the current contract today that we are under, that could be an incredible resource as to how to improve the existing contract, but we need to just forget about that, no one should care. To that I will say my measuring stick is working 23 years under NWA contracts. That's what I have to base my judgements of the current DAL contract on. You have your basis of __ years of former DAL contracts to use as your measuring stick. 99% of the time our comments are taken as us trying to say we or ours was better, that is not the case here. I just want to see things get better in our current contract. As to the contracts of ohter airlines, we lived the fNWA contract so we knew it. Reading the others is not living it and not so easy to compare contract to contract. Live it for a few years then you can make a judgement.
YOur comment in blue is an excellnt point but then you turn around and say you should not care what was in the fNWA contract, sort of contradicting.
In bringing up these issues I hope to spur some interest in your comment in green. I do want to make the current contract better. Does it not spur any interest about your contract in that I worked less days, for the same amount of monthly hours, at an hourly rate less than I am making now, but had a larger W-2 for the year. Simple poll question: Would you like to work more or less days for the same amount of yearly income with no penalty to the company??? O-more days O- less days Which one do you check.
You're also correct that you've seen both contracts. Chances are, we've both also lived under one or more other contracts at other airlines, and chances are, we both are aware of current contracts at other airlines, legacy or not, ALPA or not. The flip side of the fact that you lived under a NW contract that I don't know is that I lived under DAL contracts you don't know. So the flip side of the argument that a NW pilot better understands the path forward because he's seen two contracts is that we've all seen two contracts, and maybe my expertise with the Delta contracts that slowly collapsed to produce this POS might give me an insight (that you don't have) as to the few wrong turns we need to "undo" to make this good again. So maybe, from my viewpoint, I think I have more expertise and more insight into the problem. This may seem like pure heresy to you, since you feel that you know so much more, but we all know how constructive debates about heretics tend to be. So instead of arguing about who has the more pertinent expertise, can we not agree that such arguments do nothing but **** off the other group? Can we not agree that we are all subject matter experts? In that sense, can you see why I view a lot of these discussions as unproductive distractions?
So yes, it would be pretty stupid not to look into a factors that made it more rewarding at NW, or at any airline. I'm admittedly skeptical, but I'm not stuborn... so what was it that made you get more for less at NW?
Last edited by Sink r8; 01-19-2011 at 08:13 AM.
01-19-2011, 08:02 AM
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Baja.
01-19-2011, 08:11 AM
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I thought we would be first on the block with the -300s.
American Airlines Orders Two New Boeing 777-300ER Widebody Jets to Support Network Strategy and International Growth
American Continues to Invest in Products to Enhance the Customer Experience
Press Release Source: AMR Corporation On Wednesday January 19, 2011, 8:50 am EST
FORT WORTH, Texas, Jan. 19, 2011 /PRNewswire/ -- American Airlines, Inc., a wholly-owned subsidiary of AMR Corp., today announced it has entered into a purchase agreement with the Boeing Company under which American will acquire two Boeing 777-300ERs to support its global network strategy and to capitalize on international growth opportunities. The two aircraft are expected to be delivered in late 2012.
"These additional widebody aircraft will bolster our network strategy, particularly the international growth opportunities we expect from our joint businesses with oneworld® partners in the trans-Atlantic and trans-Pacific markets," said Tom Horton, President, AMR Corp., the parent company of American Airlines and American Eagle. "We value the combination of size, range and performance of the 777-300ER, as well as the extensive customer amenities it offers. The seating capability of the aircraft will give us growth flexibility in slot-constrained airports and provide us with greater ability to serve new long-haul markets."
"American Airlines is an industry leader whose vision and disciplined approach to growth has made it one of the largest airlines in the world," said Boeing Commercial Airplanes President and CEO Jim Albaugh. "American is the first carrier in the United States to order the 777-300ER. These new airplanes will complement their large fleet of 777-200ERs by offering additional flexibility in serving nonstop routes while providing increased efficiency and reliability."
Additional terms of the commitment were not disclosed.
"We hope that this positive step for our airline signals the beginning of a period of domestic and global expansion which will allow our airline to aggressively compete and prosper in the years to come," said Captain David Bates, President of the Allied Pilots Association, the union that represents American's 8,600 pilots.
From 2007 through 2010, American has invested $4.2 billion in aircraft, cabin, and facility improvements to enhance the customer experience.
International Growth Opportunities
The 777-300ERS will expand international service, either incremental frequencies in markets American serves today, or new routes largely resulting from its alliance initiatives.
As part of their recently launched trans-Atlantic business, oneworld members American, British Airways and Iberia announced service on five additional international routes, beginning in spring 2011. They are: New York JFK-Budapest and Chicago-Helsinki (operated by American Airlines), London Heathrow-San Diego (operated by British Airways), plus Madrid-Los Angeles and Barcelona-Miami (operated by Iberia). Also in spring 2011, American will add additional frequencies from New York JFK to Barcelona and Miami to Madrid.
On Jan. 11, American Airlines and Japan Airlines announced the launch of their trans-Pacific joint business. Customers can expect to benefit from better flight schedules, expanded codesharing, more coordinated services, and greater access to a wider variety of fares. Additional consumer benefits over the coming months are anticipated as the cooperation level deepens between the two airlines. Additionally, American plans to start its new nonstop daily service between New York's John F. Kennedy International Airport and Tokyo's Haneda International Airport next month, and to launch service from Los Angeles to Shanghai, China, in April. Japan Airlines began service from Haneda to San Francisco in late October. The carriers have already begun, or plan, to codeshare on these flights.
The trans-Atlantic joint business opportunity, initially representing approximately $7 billion in combined revenue between the carriers, will offer seamless service to 430 destinations in 105 countries, with nearly 5,200 daily departures worldwide. The trans-Pacific joint business, which represents more than $1.5 billion in combined revenue between the two airlines, represents significant growth opportunities for American long term as the Pacific region currently accounts for only about 4 percent of American's total system capacity.
American also continued to grow its service in Latin America in 2010. Last year, it began service from New York's JFK to San Jose, Costa Rica, and to Rio de Janeiro, Brazil; Dallas/Fort Worth to San Salvador, El Salvador and Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. It also began service from Miami to Brazil's capital, Brasilia. American is Latin America and Mexico's premier airline with 43 destinations to 17 countries.
"We believe it is important to grow but to do so sensibly, in the right places and, importantly, under the right economic circumstances," Horton said. "Our purchase of additional 777s, our first growth aircraft since 2001, further demonstrates that philosophy and we will continue to look for growth opportunities that make the most sense for our customers, shareholders and employees."
American Airlines Orders Two New Boeing 777-300ER Widebody Jets to Support Network Strategy and International Growth
American Continues to Invest in Products to Enhance the Customer Experience
Press Release Source: AMR Corporation On Wednesday January 19, 2011, 8:50 am EST
FORT WORTH, Texas, Jan. 19, 2011 /PRNewswire/ -- American Airlines, Inc., a wholly-owned subsidiary of AMR Corp., today announced it has entered into a purchase agreement with the Boeing Company under which American will acquire two Boeing 777-300ERs to support its global network strategy and to capitalize on international growth opportunities. The two aircraft are expected to be delivered in late 2012.
"These additional widebody aircraft will bolster our network strategy, particularly the international growth opportunities we expect from our joint businesses with oneworld® partners in the trans-Atlantic and trans-Pacific markets," said Tom Horton, President, AMR Corp., the parent company of American Airlines and American Eagle. "We value the combination of size, range and performance of the 777-300ER, as well as the extensive customer amenities it offers. The seating capability of the aircraft will give us growth flexibility in slot-constrained airports and provide us with greater ability to serve new long-haul markets."
"American Airlines is an industry leader whose vision and disciplined approach to growth has made it one of the largest airlines in the world," said Boeing Commercial Airplanes President and CEO Jim Albaugh. "American is the first carrier in the United States to order the 777-300ER. These new airplanes will complement their large fleet of 777-200ERs by offering additional flexibility in serving nonstop routes while providing increased efficiency and reliability."
Additional terms of the commitment were not disclosed.
"We hope that this positive step for our airline signals the beginning of a period of domestic and global expansion which will allow our airline to aggressively compete and prosper in the years to come," said Captain David Bates, President of the Allied Pilots Association, the union that represents American's 8,600 pilots.
From 2007 through 2010, American has invested $4.2 billion in aircraft, cabin, and facility improvements to enhance the customer experience.
International Growth Opportunities
The 777-300ERS will expand international service, either incremental frequencies in markets American serves today, or new routes largely resulting from its alliance initiatives.
As part of their recently launched trans-Atlantic business, oneworld members American, British Airways and Iberia announced service on five additional international routes, beginning in spring 2011. They are: New York JFK-Budapest and Chicago-Helsinki (operated by American Airlines), London Heathrow-San Diego (operated by British Airways), plus Madrid-Los Angeles and Barcelona-Miami (operated by Iberia). Also in spring 2011, American will add additional frequencies from New York JFK to Barcelona and Miami to Madrid.
On Jan. 11, American Airlines and Japan Airlines announced the launch of their trans-Pacific joint business. Customers can expect to benefit from better flight schedules, expanded codesharing, more coordinated services, and greater access to a wider variety of fares. Additional consumer benefits over the coming months are anticipated as the cooperation level deepens between the two airlines. Additionally, American plans to start its new nonstop daily service between New York's John F. Kennedy International Airport and Tokyo's Haneda International Airport next month, and to launch service from Los Angeles to Shanghai, China, in April. Japan Airlines began service from Haneda to San Francisco in late October. The carriers have already begun, or plan, to codeshare on these flights.
The trans-Atlantic joint business opportunity, initially representing approximately $7 billion in combined revenue between the carriers, will offer seamless service to 430 destinations in 105 countries, with nearly 5,200 daily departures worldwide. The trans-Pacific joint business, which represents more than $1.5 billion in combined revenue between the two airlines, represents significant growth opportunities for American long term as the Pacific region currently accounts for only about 4 percent of American's total system capacity.
American also continued to grow its service in Latin America in 2010. Last year, it began service from New York's JFK to San Jose, Costa Rica, and to Rio de Janeiro, Brazil; Dallas/Fort Worth to San Salvador, El Salvador and Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. It also began service from Miami to Brazil's capital, Brasilia. American is Latin America and Mexico's premier airline with 43 destinations to 17 countries.
"We believe it is important to grow but to do so sensibly, in the right places and, importantly, under the right economic circumstances," Horton said. "Our purchase of additional 777s, our first growth aircraft since 2001, further demonstrates that philosophy and we will continue to look for growth opportunities that make the most sense for our customers, shareholders and employees."
01-19-2011, 08:12 AM
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Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
1234,
You can't infer tone from a post. I think it's merely accurate to say that the arguments that either side likes to hang on to regarding the merger or the SLI are not going to work on the other side, even if they are legitimate. Everyone likes to believe their airline was the best before the merger, and I see no value in toying with those sentiments.
When I say "I don't care who had the better contract", I'm not saying "All NW pilots are [deleted] and I don't care about their opinion", but I am saying that I don't care about discussions that are guaranteed to fail to get us moving forward on a better contract.
I'm interested in the discussions about the contract, and especially those about our next contract, and beyond that I think everyone can be proud of their past, and leave it at that. Make sense?
You can't infer tone from a post. I think it's merely accurate to say that the arguments that either side likes to hang on to regarding the merger or the SLI are not going to work on the other side, even if they are legitimate. Everyone likes to believe their airline was the best before the merger, and I see no value in toying with those sentiments.
When I say "I don't care who had the better contract", I'm not saying "All NW pilots are [deleted] and I don't care about their opinion", but I am saying that I don't care about discussions that are guaranteed to fail to get us moving forward on a better contract.
I'm interested in the discussions about the contract, and especially those about our next contract, and beyond that I think everyone can be proud of their past, and leave it at that. Make sense?
01-19-2011, 08:17 AM
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01-19-2011, 08:34 AM
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disregard... already answered
Last edited by nwaf16dude; 01-19-2011 at 08:48 AM.
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