Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
01-19-2011, 06:26 AM
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JABDIP:
I'm sorry your W2 has declined. I want every DAL pilot's W2 to go up ... way up. But I will not accept pilots being less productive, flying less, or paying people to stay home. Our company simply can not do that and expect to compete.
I'd rather we stay lean and mean.
I'm sorry your W2 has declined. I want every DAL pilot's W2 to go up ... way up. But I will not accept pilots being less productive, flying less, or paying people to stay home. Our company simply can not do that and expect to compete.
I'd rather we stay lean and mean.
That said, there is PLENTY of room for improvement in all areas, including and especially reserve, and of course significant pay increases across the board. While I have no problem with productivity per say however, nothing short of awesome rigs will fix the core QOL issues we need while insuring we are productive and efficient.
Like others have mentioned, scope is the foundation of it all. The epic fail philosophy of outsourcing flying and applying that bargaining credit towards positive things we want/need has been proven counter productive time and again.
Our MEC and NC need to understand this. Scope sales are tantamount to burning the furniture to heat the house. Entirely non sustainable and ultimately result in the erosion of pay and QOL far in excess of any cookie bargaining credit that was temporarily gained at the initial point of sale. That applies not only to future scope sales but to those of the past as well. Obviously we need to avoid adding to the mistake of the past, but we also need to correct those same mistakes.
01-19-2011, 06:30 AM
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01-19-2011, 06:30 AM
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All the points you make are good. My income was down 20 percent in 09 working under the Delta contract the entire time. Had their been no merger my income would have been down 20 percent regardless. The incomes of NW pilots would also have been way down under the NWA contract without a merger. In fact its highly likely their would have been furloughs at NW with the near total collapse of the Far East Cargo and Passenger yields.(They have since bounced back and are looking much better).
Another point is the NW contract was long term with very small yearly raises. Since the merger there have been a 5,4,4 raises applied after bringing the NW rates up to Delta rates. There has also been a 1 percent increase in the DC plan. There is another 4 percent raise in 11 months.
I have a lot of friends at NW. They did very well last year and every one will make more then at any time since the chapter 11 filing. One had his best pay year ever but he flew a ton of GS's.
There were lots of differences in the contracts. Each had good points and bad points. One area there was never disagreement on between the two airlines MEC and committees was which contract to base the joint contract around. The Delta contract produced more overall value for the pilots and both sides understood that without dispute. That does not say the NW contract did not have good items. It had lots of great items but so did the Delta contract.
Another point is the NW contract was long term with very small yearly raises. Since the merger there have been a 5,4,4 raises applied after bringing the NW rates up to Delta rates. There has also been a 1 percent increase in the DC plan. There is another 4 percent raise in 11 months.
I have a lot of friends at NW. They did very well last year and every one will make more then at any time since the chapter 11 filing. One had his best pay year ever but he flew a ton of GS's.
There were lots of differences in the contracts. Each had good points and bad points. One area there was never disagreement on between the two airlines MEC and committees was which contract to base the joint contract around. The Delta contract produced more overall value for the pilots and both sides understood that without dispute. That does not say the NW contract did not have good items. It had lots of great items but so did the Delta contract.
I agree NWA probably would have furloughed more guys without the merger but they also would have made the remainder of us fly more........and we did still had time and a half over 80. But, who knows.
I agree about the length of the old NWA contract and the biggest reason (that and Compass) was the reason I voted no on it.
01-19-2011, 06:32 AM
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When I got displaced in SLC I could have gone to 727 Capt in CVG (on reserve). In hindsight I regret not doing it because I really loved flying the 727 and now wish I could say I flew it in all three seats.
I think the CVG 727 base closed several months after SLC. So I would have been displaced, gone through training and IOE ,and flown it as a line Capt in CVG for a few months.
That was a great airplane!
01-19-2011, 06:36 AM
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I'm sure you are right about NY.
When I got displaced in SLC I could have gone to 727 Capt in CVG (on reserve). In hindsight I regret not doing it because I really loved flying the 727 and now wish I could say I flew it in all three seats.
I think the CVG 727 base closed several months after SLC. So I would have been displaced, gone through training and IOE ,and flown it as a line Capt in CVG for a few months.
That was a great airplane!
When I got displaced in SLC I could have gone to 727 Capt in CVG (on reserve). In hindsight I regret not doing it because I really loved flying the 727 and now wish I could say I flew it in all three seats.
I think the CVG 727 base closed several months after SLC. So I would have been displaced, gone through training and IOE ,and flown it as a line Capt in CVG for a few months.
That was a great airplane!
01-19-2011, 06:46 AM
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Anyone know if the 2 hour commute clause is a privilege that is invoked or does it have to be requested and granted at the whim of the scheduler? Also, I was told a few days ago that it had to be requested the day before, not sure about that as I can't find anything about it in the contract. Thanks in advance.
01-19-2011, 06:46 AM
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This whole W-2 next contract discussion got me thinking..............
What would time and a half over the AVL do to rotation construction? (Assuming the company wouldn't laugh us out of the room)
What would time and a half over the AVL do to rotation construction? (Assuming the company wouldn't laugh us out of the room)
01-19-2011, 06:49 AM
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Y'know, when we talk about scope it's almost always in the context of RJs.
I'm interested in the scope applications of, say, our Alaska agreement. How does Alaska doing transcontinental flying like LAX - DCA not represent poaching of DAL jobs?
I'm interested in the scope applications of, say, our Alaska agreement. How does Alaska doing transcontinental flying like LAX - DCA not represent poaching of DAL jobs?
01-19-2011, 06:49 AM
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Like others have mentioned, scope is the foundation of it all. The epic fail philosophy of outsourcing flying and applying that bargaining credit towards positive things we want/need has been proven counter productive.
Of course this is not how the contracts at Delta went. Its been pointed out many times that scope was the last thing settled on the last several contracts. It was not concluded until long after everything else was done. When the allowed more E170/175's we did not get paybacks in other contract areas. It was forced on us by circumstances and the 1113 process.
Of course this is not how the contracts at Delta went. Its been pointed out many times that scope was the last thing settled on the last several contracts. It was not concluded until long after everything else was done. When the allowed more E170/175's we did not get paybacks in other contract areas. It was forced on us by circumstances and the 1113 process.
01-19-2011, 06:51 AM
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Your numbers are system block hours not pilot block hours. Huge difference. We moved a tremendous number of aircraft into international operations which increases pilot block hours but not system block hours. 3 or 4 pilots staffing a flight is a lot more pilot block hours then system hours.
I'm not saying that your statement is wrong, but I do think that you are giving far too much weight to your argument and not nearly enough too outsourcing of jobs.
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