satchip

That's part of that Export Credit argument going on in Europe right now. Emirates and Qatar Air get support from the gov of Airbus and I think we do it too. It's illegal for them to help their respective domestic carriers. Kinda buying the knife for the killer to cut your throat.

Wasatch Phantom

Sailing,

You're wrong. The original post was about 2001. On 9/11/2001 the 727 was still going fairly strong. I was a SLC based 727 F/O. Besides SLC, we also had active bases in ATL, LAX, CVG, and IIRC NYC. Yes the drawdown had started, but there were still a bunch of 727s. Additionally, not all the F/Es were ropes, yet.

I think LAX closed first. SLC flew it's last 727 flight in May 2002, IIRC.

DeadHead

I might be misunderstanding this here, but I thought basically foreign carriers had access to better financing rates through the US than domestic carriers were able to get.

sailingfun

All the points you make are good. My income was down 20 percent in 09 working under the Delta contract the entire time. Had their been no merger my income would have been down 20 percent regardless. The incomes of NW pilots would also have been way down under the NWA contract without a merger. In fact its highly likely their would have been furloughs at NW with the near total collapse of the Far East Cargo and Passenger yields.(They have since bounced back and are looking much better).
Another point is the NW contract was long term with very small yearly raises. Since the merger there have been a 5,4,4 raises applied after bringing the NW rates up to Delta rates. There has also been a 1 percent increase in the DC plan. There is another 4 percent raise in 11 months.
I have a lot of friends at NW. They did very well last year and every one will make more then at any time since the chapter 11 filing. One had his best pay year ever but he flew a ton of GS's.
There were lots of differences in the contracts. Each had good points and bad points. One area there was never disagreement on between the two airlines MEC and committees was which contract to base the joint contract around. The Delta contract produced more overall value for the pilots and both sides understood that without dispute. That does not say the NW contract did not have good items. It had lots of great items but so did the Delta contract.

Pay rate comparison. NWA premerger 757/767 CA 142.00 an hour.
Post merger rate current. 181 an hour and 189 in 11 months. I know NWA had some small raises but I don't think the rate today would be over 150 an hour under the NWA contract. It would take a 26 percent raise to bring the NWA rate up to the 189 Delta rate assuming the NWA rate moved up to 150. Total pay raise since the merger will be 33 percent come next Jan. The NW rates I used are approx but should be close. I am sure a NWA pilot can post all their actual rates including contract raises.

Ferd149

Sink........love ya dearly (ok not that way) so consider two points (for USAF SOS grads you'll notice that I don't have 3 main points and therefore fail the briefing)

Anyway, thinking about this a lot over the last year or so I look at 2 places where as a group we did better W-2 wise.

One, time and a half over 80 hours. No, I don't want to work 80 hours a month and most months I don't.........BUT, when I did (especially in Asia, I got paid real well). Now, yes I agree that if you live in/near a base you do better greenslipping, but most of "us" don't live near a base. I have zero greenslips and I never commuted to "high time" in the old NWA system either. But, pattern construction or AVL built me an over 80 month a lot. Our friends at FOX news will tell you that time and a half over 80 is socialism because it spreads the money over more of the masses, but I guess thats ok

The other thing we had was a 4:15 MINIMUM day, not an average day a MINIMUM day. I can't put my finger on it, but that appears huge in rotation/pattern construction.

Your right, no since looking back. But, if these aren't discussion items for the NEXT contract as you describe.........we're morons.

Ferd

PS how I voted is and why is a whole nudder discussion better done over beers

satchip

I think we are talking about the same thing. I know the European carriers are complaining about it too. Might be different programs but the same idea.

DeadHead

Quick side question, anyone know how to change company business travel arrangements to-from training? Travelnet blocks the "Change Reservation" button?

Also what time is check-in at the doubletree? Im assuming its 3 pm

iaflyer

Call the CPSC and either tell them what you want your flights to be, or have then cancel the whole thing and you book it yourself as Company Business. I prefer the latter as I can change the flights later on without calling anyone.

satchip

Just book another Company Business reservation. It will let you.

I think it's 3. They are putting people all over down here. We have a lot of guys in training right now.

sailingfun

We may have had some other active bases. I was NYC based and flew it to the end there. DBMS shows my last NY flight was in 2000 so NY was not open in 2001. I don't think LAX was open in 2001. CVG and SLC your probably correct but CVG I think shut down in 01.