Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
01-18-2011, 10:49 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: non acceptus excretus
Posts: 561
I haven't found any improvements to forget. Seriously, to put it in simple terms, I made less w-2 money in the last 2 years than my last year under fNWA contract averaging the same number of hours of pay per month. Also I am working 36-40 days a year more under DAL work rules for less money. This year I will finally make more than my last fNWA contract year. It goes back to those work rules that Sailing was talking about. I can go on with the things that I had before that I do not have now, but what good would that do. It is always perceived as whinning on here. Hands down with my experince with the DAL contract which is limited, today I would choose the fNWA contract over the current DAL contract. As bad as it was I still think it was much better in QOL issues. I prefer to have rose colored glasses rather than blinders.
I am open to an education on real improvements. I'm sure there are some.
I am open to an education on real improvements. I'm sure there are some.
01-19-2011, 03:39 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,614
How many flight engineers did we have back then? When I was hired we had a ton of 727's, and some L-10's.
I agree with your point about work rules causing massive job losses - they did, but totally disagree with your implication that job losses due to work rules dwarfs job losses due to outsourcing. Both have been bad for us.
I also disagree that we lost 777 jobs - since we now have more 777s and consequently more 777 pilots today.
Yes, we would have more 777 Pilots with better work rules but it is not totally correct to say we lost 777 jobs. How many less 777 pilots would we have now if we outsourced wide-body flying like UAL is attempting to do?
Job losses for any reason are bad for us as Pilots, but beyond our Pilot contract job losses through work rules are limited by FARs. The work rule caused job losses have been extensive - we agree here, but I feel they are basically behind us - I can only hope job losses due to outsourcing are also behind us.
Scoop
I agree with your point about work rules causing massive job losses - they did, but totally disagree with your implication that job losses due to work rules dwarfs job losses due to outsourcing. Both have been bad for us.
I also disagree that we lost 777 jobs - since we now have more 777s and consequently more 777 pilots today.
Yes, we would have more 777 Pilots with better work rules but it is not totally correct to say we lost 777 jobs. How many less 777 pilots would we have now if we outsourced wide-body flying like UAL is attempting to do?
Job losses for any reason are bad for us as Pilots, but beyond our Pilot contract job losses through work rules are limited by FARs. The work rule caused job losses have been extensive - we agree here, but I feel they are basically behind us - I can only hope job losses due to outsourcing are also behind us.
Scoop
As Far as the 727 FE you are correct we still had them. All the bases had been closed except ATL and we had about 150 FE's in ATL. The last flight was Apr of 03. I don't believe we had any L1011's then but someone on the aircraft can add the date. I remember that most of the FE's on the 727's were ropes pushed off the L1011.
I don't understand your point on the 777's. They replaced MD11's. Jobs lost are jobs lost. If we buy 200 new narrow bodies are you saying the work rule reset themselves and we have not lost any jobs?
We have lost jobs to workrules and scope. Workrules are easy to quantify however scope is a bit more difficult to attach numbers to. The simply fact on work rules is the average Delta pilot flies 25 percent more block hours then in the past. Thats huge.
Scope we have lost a lot of domestic flying. Some of those markets are a straight trade. The jobs moved one for one from the mainline to DCI. Other markets fall into a gray area. We might have stayed in the market or if we were not cost competitive we would have to abandon the market and lost both that route and the feed it generated to larger aircraft.
Another post stated APA is the best example of great scope that we should strive for. How many pilots do they have on furlough? As I have stated many times scope is not cut and dried. There is a point where you lose jobs not gain them and the jobs lost are much higher paying then the jobs gained. I personally think the cutoff falls with the EMB170/175. They should be at the mainline. Others have different opinions. None of us really know unless we are allowed access to confidential data from the company. Only the MEC will see that data. Bucking will not be read into the program contrary to his wishes. In this we have to trust the reps.
01-19-2011, 03:46 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
01-19-2011, 03:50 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Why can't you stop at making this very important point...
...without getting stuck in this ridiculous and divisive crap?
Honestly, you're not going to convince the DAL group that your contract was better. Maybe it goes to the heart of the SLI discussion, and maybe some of the beliefs on either side qualify as "faith-based". Maybe it's because you voted overwhelmingly for the JCBA that we don't believe you, or maybe it's simply because all pilots want to believe they are better that we never will believe you. Regardless of the reasons we won't buy into this, the truth is we don't care what the QOL was a Northwest. And I don't see how anyone should care. That's because there is no benefit in looking backwards. All we have is the Delta contract, and we need to figure which parts need to be modified, and which parts need to be torn out, spit on, and burned to the ground. This is the only way in which it's interesting to talk about specific points in the fNWA contracts that could be useful, but then again, it's not any more interesting than the good points of the FedEx contract, or the Continental contract, or any contract, because we only need be focused on making the best Delta contract possible.
If the fNWA was that much better, good for you. I hope you enjoyed while you had it. Unfortunately, that's not the contract you live under. So why not talk about a better contract for all Delta pilots, including you of course, and leave it at that?
I haven't found any improvements to forget. Seriously, to put it in simple terms, I made less w-2 money in the last 2 years than my last year under fNWA contract averaging the same number of hours of pay per month. Also I am working 36-40 days a year more under DAL work rules for less money. This year I will finally make more than my last fNWA contract year. It goes back to those work rules that Sailing was talking about. I can go on with the things that I had before that I do not have now, but what good would that do. It is always perceived as whinning on here. Hands down with my experince with the DAL contract which is limited, today I would choose the fNWA contract over the current DAL contract. As bad as it was I still think it was much better in QOL issues. I prefer to have rose colored glasses rather than blinders.
If the fNWA was that much better, good for you. I hope you enjoyed while you had it. Unfortunately, that's not the contract you live under. So why not talk about a better contract for all Delta pilots, including you of course, and leave it at that?
01-19-2011, 03:57 AM
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2007
Posts: 88
I'll assume you are using a PC (as opposed to your phone) to download as this makes it very simple.
Go to your schedule on icrew (make sure you are using FireFox). At the bottom click on download schedule and save it to where you want it. It doesn't matter which format as Google will recognize both but I found ICal works best.
Open your Google Calender, in the left tab click on add then select import.
Find your calender you saved on your PC and click on import.
That should do it.
Hope this helps.
01-19-2011, 04:17 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
JABDIP:
I'm sorry your W2 has declined. I want every DAL pilot's W2 to go up ... way up. But I will not accept pilots being less productive, flying less, or paying people to stay home. Our company simply can not do that and expect to compete.
I'd rather we stay lean and mean.
I'm sorry your W2 has declined. I want every DAL pilot's W2 to go up ... way up. But I will not accept pilots being less productive, flying less, or paying people to stay home. Our company simply can not do that and expect to compete.
I'd rather we stay lean and mean.
Okay,
We'll start by having you come in to mop the food court on your days off.
01-19-2011, 04:25 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,919
Why can't you stop at making this very important point...
...without getting stuck in this ridiculous and divisive crap?
Honestly, you're not going to convince the DAL group that your contract was better. Maybe it goes to the heart of the SLI discussion, and maybe some of the beliefs on either side qualify as "faith-based". Maybe it's because you voted overwhelmingly for the JCBA that we don't believe you, or maybe it's simply because all pilots want to believe they are better that we never will believe you. Regardless of the reasons we won't buy into this, the truth is we don't care what the QOL was a Northwest. And I don't see how anyone should care. That's because there is no benefit in looking backwards. All we have is the Delta contract, and we need to figure which parts need to be modified, and which parts need to be torn out, spit on, and burned to the ground. This is the only way in which it's interesting to talk about specific points in the fNWA contracts that could be useful, but then again, it's not any more interesting than the good points of the FedEx contract, or the Continental contract, or any contract, because we only need be focused on making the best Delta contract possible.
If the fNWA was that much better, good for you. I hope you enjoyed while you had it. Unfortunately, that's not the contract you live under. So why not talk about a better contract for all Delta pilots, including you of course, and leave it at that?
...without getting stuck in this ridiculous and divisive crap?
Honestly, you're not going to convince the DAL group that your contract was better. Maybe it goes to the heart of the SLI discussion, and maybe some of the beliefs on either side qualify as "faith-based". Maybe it's because you voted overwhelmingly for the JCBA that we don't believe you, or maybe it's simply because all pilots want to believe they are better that we never will believe you. Regardless of the reasons we won't buy into this, the truth is we don't care what the QOL was a Northwest. And I don't see how anyone should care. That's because there is no benefit in looking backwards. All we have is the Delta contract, and we need to figure which parts need to be modified, and which parts need to be torn out, spit on, and burned to the ground. This is the only way in which it's interesting to talk about specific points in the fNWA contracts that could be useful, but then again, it's not any more interesting than the good points of the FedEx contract, or the Continental contract, or any contract, because we only need be focused on making the best Delta contract possible.
If the fNWA was that much better, good for you. I hope you enjoyed while you had it. Unfortunately, that's not the contract you live under. So why not talk about a better contract for all Delta pilots, including you of course, and leave it at that?
Whether it's pay, work rules, or scope; I think it's important to create PWA in 2012 that works for EVERY pilot without leveraging one side of a group against the other side of the group.
01-19-2011, 04:27 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 110
Are you sure it was all RJs? I listened to the call and they said 100 small frames to include a large portion of RJs. I did not get the impression it would be exclusively RJs that are pulled off line.
01-19-2011, 04:28 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
They did mention an accelerated retirement of the DC-9-50's as well. I did not hear a follow up on replacements for the 9. It will be 90's but at what rate? Who knows.
01-19-2011, 04:38 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: right for a long, long time
Posts: 2,642
I'm not sure that the MD-90 is the "replacement" for the DC-9. Call it too much minutiae, but the MD-90 and DC-9 have very different missions....
I submit that the A319/MD-88/CRJ-900 are the DC-9 replacement and that the MD-90 is replacing mid range A320/738 and long range MD-88 flying.
But I guess in the end its all the same thing.....
I submit that the A319/MD-88/CRJ-900 are the DC-9 replacement and that the MD-90 is replacing mid range A320/738 and long range MD-88 flying.
But I guess in the end its all the same thing.....
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
