acl65pilot

With the jets that will be coming it probably was not worth the risks, but that part has never been explained to the pilot group.
Anyhoo, fact is that the pilot group has spoken quite clearly that they are done accepting concessions on scope.

sailingfun

You hit the nail on the head. To many pilots just want to fight at the moment. With the jets coming the very best we could have done was force the company to take 6 seats out of a handful of jets for a year to 18 months. That was the total extent of our upside in arbitration. The downside was much larger.

acl65pilot

All the anger, including my own could have been thwarted with a little more communication. That is the extent of it.

I had to do a lot of digging to figure out why there was no real attempt do fight this. Upside/ downside or not.
When these phantom jets show up we will be well above the compliance limit.

Carl Spackler

This again eh? I don't know if there was an offer and/or what that offer may have entailed. Neither do you.

Nobody "insisted" on anything. Negotiations broke down. No surprise there.

Again, since you have no idea what was in the previous offer that may or may not have even existed, how can you say the seniority list is "basically the same?" Oh, I know...you just made it up.

It's not a question of whether arbitration was worth it or not, it was simply the next step after negotiations failed.

I agree. Who wouldn't?

You have to have a deep sense of what's really important. I don't care what DALPA won or settled for in previous grievances. Nothing is more important than Scope...NOTHING. If DALPA doesn't understand that a full frontal assault is always worth it when it comes to the most important section of any contract, we all have bigger problems than anyone thinks.

Carl

Carl Spackler

Nothing is risk free. But we and our union have shown the company that we weren't willing to take a risk on our most important section. That's sad.

Justify it however you want. DALPA caved in on Scope. When you don't even fight, that's caving. It was cowardly, and I'm still sick about it.

Carl

Carl Spackler

I don't know how the pilot group has spoken that ACL. I wish it were true, but I don't see it. All I see is a union that sent us a heavily spun report of why they did what they did. Do you mean that prior to this cave-in the pilot group had not let it be known that they were done accepting concessions on Scope? I think the DAL pilot group has been saying this for a very long time. The real question is: "Does the MEC Chairman agree?" Since he clearly does not agree, none of us has any idea when the next Scope cave-in will take place, or what it will be traded for.

Carl

Superdad

You wanna know when the next scope cave in will take place? Very simple, it will happen when and if DAL furloughs and the company comes to the ALPA and says "we really don't want to take the seats out, what do you want in exchange for those seats?"

furlough protection is a sucker deal and we are the suckers!

acl65pilot

Carl;
IMHO the reps have gotten more e-mails about this 76 seat scope settlement than they have over anything in recent history. People are sick of it.

That is what I am referring to. Not the fact that we have voted to relax scope every time it has been presented to us.

johnso29

I think we need to keep emailing them. We need to continue to reiterate that scope is NOT for sale! The line WILL be drawn!

Bucking Bar

Nah, that will be number four, or so.

The next couple will be:

• Confirmation of a waiver of LOA 2006-10 with regard to Comair and ASA
• A waiver of the 1 B 40 D which calls for the number of 76 seat jets to be reduced to 85 if LOA 2006-10 ceases to be available.
• A waiver of LOA 2006-14 when Compass gets their own MEC and decides to "me too" on the objections Comair raised
• A second waiver of 1 B 40 D with respects to LOA 2006-14
• Then, when the furloughs happen some time after December 2010, they'll call the scope cave in you reference "status quo" because we undermined it starting back in October of 2008.