Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
01-07-2011, 11:57 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,423
I am going to make this really easy for you. Call each of your reps and ask them what they would do if the company came to them with a 30,40,50,60,70,80,% etc pay raise in exchange for scope relief. If they say they are open to it, talk to them, if they tell you, you do not understand, make sure you have pilots in there that do. It cannot get simpler than that. That is part of the election process.
I will also repeat once again, I do not see one rep going for this. If there are a few, it will not be the majority no matter what pay carrot is waved. Maybe the company will try, and maybe the union will have the reps vote it down, but I just do not see this coming to a pilot vote. If by some chance it does, and we vote "yes" for it, we get what is coming to us. At best I see 30% voting for anything that give up scope, and I really do not even see it being that high. The only issue we have is senior pilots can sell our farm because once they retire they have no attachment to it. Other than that, it will hurt way to much to everyone's career.
I will also repeat once again, I do not see one rep going for this. If there are a few, it will not be the majority no matter what pay carrot is waved. Maybe the company will try, and maybe the union will have the reps vote it down, but I just do not see this coming to a pilot vote. If by some chance it does, and we vote "yes" for it, we get what is coming to us. At best I see 30% voting for anything that give up scope, and I really do not even see it being that high. The only issue we have is senior pilots can sell our farm because once they retire they have no attachment to it. Other than that, it will hurt way to much to everyone's career.
This whole "The company is offering a huge payraise for 100 seat scope is so stupid you wonder how it gets spread and started. If anyone thought about it even a little bit they would realize the company is not going to offer and never has offered a large raise for 100 seat scope.
If they got a 100 seat relief they gain the difference in revenue from a current 76 seat jet. You have to figure how much the additional profit they might generate on the 24 more seats. I suspect the verybest case might be 50 million a year yet we see rumor after rumor that the company is offering us 200 to 600 million a year in pay raises in exchange. You also have to look at the difference in revenue from the company choosing to operate the jet at the mainline. If you follow the convention wisdom of this board the mainline can fly the jet for the same cost as DCI. Why would the company offer 1 penny in that case.
I suspect the company may open for 100 seats in the next contract. It will however be a throw away item. There is no big push and management has no real desire to see that jet at DCI. They also have no real desire for the jet on the mainline. They want a new very efficient 150 seat jet. You will not see a 100 seater at DCI or the mainline.
01-07-2011, 12:08 PM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
This whole "The company is offering a huge payraise for 100 seat scope is so stupid you wonder how it gets spread and started. If anyone thought about it even a little bit they would realize the company is not going to offer and never has offered a large raise for 100 seat scope.
If they got a 100 seat relief they gain the difference in revenue from a current 76 seat jet. You have to figure how much the additional profit they might generate on the 24 more seats. I suspect the verybest case might be 50 million a year yet we see rumor after rumor that the company is offering us 200 to 600 million a year in pay raises in exchange. You also have to look at the difference in revenue from the company choosing to operate the jet at the mainline. If you follow the convention wisdom of this board the mainline can fly the jet for the same cost as DCI. Why would the company offer 1 penny in that case.
I suspect the company may open for 100 seats in the next contract. It will however be a throw away item. There is no big push and management has no real desire to see that jet at DCI. They also have no real desire for the jet on the mainline. They want a new very efficient 150 seat jet. You will not see a 100 seater at DCI or the mainline.
If they got a 100 seat relief they gain the difference in revenue from a current 76 seat jet. You have to figure how much the additional profit they might generate on the 24 more seats. I suspect the verybest case might be 50 million a year yet we see rumor after rumor that the company is offering us 200 to 600 million a year in pay raises in exchange. You also have to look at the difference in revenue from the company choosing to operate the jet at the mainline. If you follow the convention wisdom of this board the mainline can fly the jet for the same cost as DCI. Why would the company offer 1 penny in that case.
I suspect the company may open for 100 seats in the next contract. It will however be a throw away item. There is no big push and management has no real desire to see that jet at DCI. They also have no real desire for the jet on the mainline. They want a new very efficient 150 seat jet. You will not see a 100 seater at DCI or the mainline.
01-07-2011, 12:17 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,324
This whole "The company is offering a huge payraise for 100 seat scope is so stupid you wonder how it gets spread and started. If anyone thought about it even a little bit they would realize the company is not going to offer and never has offered a large raise for 100 seat scope. There is no big push and management has no real desire to see that jet at DCI. They also have no real desire for the jet on the mainline.
Your numbers don't work because payraises can be taken away but scope never comes back.
01-07-2011, 12:31 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: 767A (Ret)
Posts: 6,248
"Throw away" or "trade away" items (sometimes truly absurd ones), are very common in contract opening offers. Each side must demonstrate "good faith bargaining", i.e. movement toward a settlement, so they load their ship with plenty of jettisonable stores. Sometimes they will anonymously float out an idea to see what kind of fire it draws, and if it gets clobbered, deny all knowledge of it.
The real danger is not that pilots will yield to an outrageous demand, but that they will give up something of real value to make it go away.
The real danger is not that pilots will yield to an outrageous demand, but that they will give up something of real value to make it go away.
01-07-2011, 12:40 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,462
]
I suspect the company may open for 100 seats in the next contract. It will however be a throw away item. There is no big push and management has no real desire to see that jet at DCI. They also have no real desire for the jet on the mainline. They want a new very efficient 150 seat jet. You will not see a 100 seater at DCI or the mainline.
I suspect the company may open for 100 seats in the next contract. It will however be a throw away item. There is no big push and management has no real desire to see that jet at DCI. They also have no real desire for the jet on the mainline. They want a new very efficient 150 seat jet. You will not see a 100 seater at DCI or the mainline.
I think they'll open for the regionals to fly it, and in the end I think we'll fly it, but they'll try to extract a lot of negotiating capital from us to make that happen.
01-07-2011, 12:47 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,324
i disagree. I think this next contract will be the contract in which the 100 seat jet comes into existence. With the phase out of the dc9's and dal's phase out of b737-200s a few years ago, there's a gaping hole in the system with nothing between 76 seats and 125(?) of the a319. That's a huge spread, that needs to be filled, imo.
I think they'll open for the regionals to fly it, and in the end i think we'll fly it, but they'll try to extract a lot of negotiating capital from us to make that happen.
I think they'll open for the regionals to fly it, and in the end i think we'll fly it, but they'll try to extract a lot of negotiating capital from us to make that happen.
Since "everything has a cost" the real question from management will be "what are you willing to give up" for us to keep something we already have.
01-07-2011, 12:47 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,423
How then do you explain the scope improvements we have made since 1986. At that point we had no scope. The company could fly anything they wanted. In fact they were flying 4 engine 100 seat capable jets at ASA. We were able to end that and bring the number down to 50 seats. We did it before and we can do it again.
In addition there has only been one time in the history of pilot contracts where there were significant pay cuts. That was under threat of a chapter 11 filing and then a actual chapter 11 filing. We had large losses in scope at the same time. The threat of a chapter 11 filing was when the Malone MEC gave away the EMB170/175. Our single biggest scope mistake.
01-07-2011, 12:50 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,423
I disagree. I think this next contract WILL be the contract in which the 100 seat jet comes into existence. With the phase out of the DC9's and DAL's phase out of B737-200s a few years ago, there's a gaping hole in the system with nothing between 76 seats and 125(?) of the A319. That's a huge spread, that needs to be filled, imo.
I think they'll open for the regionals to fly it, and in the end I think we'll fly it, but they'll try to extract a lot of negotiating capital from us to make that happen.
I think they'll open for the regionals to fly it, and in the end I think we'll fly it, but they'll try to extract a lot of negotiating capital from us to make that happen.
The company has been stating a replacement 100 seat jet would be ordered in a matter of months since 1991 when the nines were retired. I am not hold ing my breath 20 years later. I personally have heard senior management on at least 3 occasions mention the fact that they can fly a 150 seat jet for almost the same cost as a 100 seat jet. After 20 years I am starting to think that might be their plan.
01-07-2011, 12:58 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Dismayed
Posts: 1,598
01-07-2011, 12:59 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Captain Jack
Posts: 1,003
This whole "The company is offering a huge payraise for 100 seat scope is so stupid you wonder how it gets spread and started. If anyone thought about it even a little bit they would realize the company is not going to offer and never has offered a large raise for 100 seat scope.
If they got a 100 seat relief they gain the difference in revenue from a current 76 seat jet. You have to figure how much the additional profit they might generate on the 24 more seats. I suspect the verybest case might be 50 million a year yet we see rumor after rumor that the company is offering us 200 to 600 million a year in pay raises in exchange. You also have to look at the difference in revenue from the company choosing to operate the jet at the mainline. If you follow the convention wisdom of this board the mainline can fly the jet for the same cost as DCI. Why would the company offer 1 penny in that case.
I suspect the company may open for 100 seats in the next contract. It will however be a throw away item. There is no big push and management has no real desire to see that jet at DCI. They also have no real desire for the jet on the mainline. They want a new very efficient 150 seat jet. You will not see a 100 seater at DCI or the mainline.
If they got a 100 seat relief they gain the difference in revenue from a current 76 seat jet. You have to figure how much the additional profit they might generate on the 24 more seats. I suspect the verybest case might be 50 million a year yet we see rumor after rumor that the company is offering us 200 to 600 million a year in pay raises in exchange. You also have to look at the difference in revenue from the company choosing to operate the jet at the mainline. If you follow the convention wisdom of this board the mainline can fly the jet for the same cost as DCI. Why would the company offer 1 penny in that case.
I suspect the company may open for 100 seats in the next contract. It will however be a throw away item. There is no big push and management has no real desire to see that jet at DCI. They also have no real desire for the jet on the mainline. They want a new very efficient 150 seat jet. You will not see a 100 seater at DCI or the mainline.
Unless of course some major gets a high pay scale in the early 2000's and with a huge rj release....then after a bk .....pay gone, rj's remain.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
