ERJ135

I'd suggest the DAL MEC should go and talk to APA ask them how well their flowbacks are being treated at Egl. With the big displacments back in late summer 08'. Those remaining flowbacks on property lost their capt seats at Eagle and have since been displaced to FO and retaining EGL seniority. So they're capts had their TWA seniority at egl before displacement. Many of them in the neigborhood of 10yrs. So the held 10yr egl capt pay at $80/hr . Now they're at 5yr egl fo pay assuming many been on property for 5yrs, that $39/hr. Many of these guys I flew where 767intl, making six figures, now they are a poverty level wages as a regional fo. Its just plain wrong IMO. APA set up a flowback fund to help support their famlies and such. Unfortunately APA is essentially powerless to do anything to help them. i hear they're trying. I wish them luck but, I think the DAL MEC should take a lesson here at making sure the DAL pilots are protected at CPZ in the event of a flowback situation. You don't want what has happened to AA FB's to happen to DAL guys.

FmrFreightDog

Ladies and Gentlemen, allow me to introduce you to Mr. Speedbird_34 of Flightinfo.com fame. Ignoring this particular specimen will do your blood pressure and general well-being good in the long run.

MD80

DALPA has to stop negotiating away your scope language.


Midwest is an example of a pilot group (lead by ALPA national) negotiating holes in the scope language and having to pay the price.

Vikz09

what inaccurate information is it that you speak of regarding the compass interview. Ask me I will tell you exactly about it. Was one of the first to interview and the interview we went thru was identical to the NWA interview when they were hiring. IN FACT it was more thourgh. How do I know? My friends wife was the HR specialist who interviewed the last 150 pilots hired at NWA. My buddy and I were int the first few Compass Classes and only went there because we were told the way to NWA was thru Compass. While in Montreal finishing up our types.. his wife called and told us NWA was going to hire to cover there summer schedule and in fact she was shifted over to do the Pilot interviews. Believe me when I say, I had friends who couldn't get the Compass interview in the first month or two. fortunatly for them when they didn't get the Compass interview because NWA started interviewing 2 month's after I got hired and 4 people I know who wanted to get Compass interviews (but didn't have as much time, experience, etc.) ended up getting jobs at NWA.... Oh and by the way there interview was almost the same minus no simulator. Yes I Had to fly a 727 around the sky's my buddies now at NWA/DELTA did NOT. I assume you feel like you are better then anybody at Compass?

buzzpat

Ahhh, ok. Thanks for the PIREP.

slowplay

The resolution that passed in ATL wasn't similar to the resolution passed in MSP. One of the resolutions being put forward in DTW is completely different, demanding a 2 year timeline to integrate ALL ALPA represented connection carriers under the title "mainline flying restoration."

Only problem is, none of these resolutions describe a path to achieving their desired results. At least the ATL resolution called for study of the consequences.

slowplay

Are you intentionally being disingenous in order to advance an agenda? The only outcome of the MSP resolution involved single seniority lists. The DTW mainline flying recapture resolution goes a lot farther. You are correct that the ATL resolution does involve studying the issue, which I'm ok with. Maybe there will be a magic bullet someplace, but as this idea has been studied to death and litigated by different parties I'm not very hopeful.

Fly4hire

The MSP resolution was to maintain representational staus quo. The ATL one said the same thing in a somewhat convoluted way. There will be a number of DTW resolutions, and the one you are referring to is from a CPS pilot who is a whack job and does not enjoy the support of his own pilot group, let alone the DAL-N pilots. It could always pass, but I'm not holding my breath - why don't we see what actually comes out of DTW

Either way the MEC can sort them out. The only thing reasonable people are asking for is to keep the representational status quo lest we unintentionally frak something up we don't yet comprehend (some of us any ways).

Integration is pie-in-the sky until: we roll back 76 seat limits, address pay, and the company wants to.

In the mean time CPS on our MEC is protection for DAL pilots and jobs, and future leverage. Why would we want to just give that away?

Bucking Bar

Whatever. The resolution was sent to the Secretary Treasurer three weeks ahead of time, at least as week before the meeting notice (I got a CC of it) and was requested to be added to the Agenda. No notice was provided that this would not be on the Agenda. The LEC acted professionally, but clearly did not want the resolution. It was decided not to make an issue of the Agenda and as was, the resolution passed without raising the proxy issue.

There has been plenty of chatter on the web boards, so this wasn't exactly a stealthy resolution. Yes, had the item been on the Agenda the outcome would have been different. There would have been about another 20 votes cast in favor.

The reason so many former regional pilots are scope hawks are because their careers have been held back by rampant outsourcing of mainline jobs. They flew turboprops, but instead of being able to advance into mainline jets, those jets were outsourced. Now their upgrades will be pushed back an additional few years as the jets that were the traditional first Captain's seats go to regional pilots with nearly zero longevity. These pilots, like me, cringe when they hear their union say "76 seats is a good thing because those 6 additional seats bring in more revenue" and "Compass having costs 30% lower helps keep the other regionals in line." Apprently they miss the logic that these factors weigh against an investment in 100 seat jets at mainline.

You accuse others of misrepresentation, then you make statements like:
The resolution asks the MEC to study the issue and report. How does that "add more pilots to the seniority list?"

I wonder why anyone would be against a resolution asking our MEC to evaluate ways to take some flying back and restore the concessionary scope bargaining done during bankrutcy. What's the worst that could happen?

Bucking Bar

Well, you're more moderate than you were a couple pages ago.

This idea has not been studied at all since bankruptcy. This is illustrated by comparing present day statements to management's talking points during the 1113 concessionary negotiations. One point is the cost of under wing support being too expensive to allow mainline to fly this type of operation, yet, Delta a reorganized most under wing support and in fact hired thousands of ASA employees who now are DGS folks who serve mainline and regional flights. Also consider that the Compass issue was not brought up, or negotiated during the JPWA dealings. There has not been a "trigger" to task ALPA's Experts with the job and those committees act under orders from the MEC, these Experts don't act independently.

I too am not optimistic the ATL resolution will have any effect because the bankruptcy scope negotiations are so entrenched. If leadership wanted those numbers, they would have asked for them during the JPWA negotiations.

My guess is taking the Compass scope back would be complex and difficult. It is much, much, easier to draw the line in the sand, push Compass over to the regional side and get the matter off everyone's desk. When Compass becomes another Comair, with its own representational and scope issues, it will be easy to blame the Compass pilots for the problems with Compass. They already have a Compass Coalition forming which will be the RJDC, revision 2.

None the less, it was right to speak up and challenge the status quo on this issue. It would be good to head this off at the pass. Some want to keep their ammo dry until just before Section 6 and ask for scope restoration then. If you are one of the pilots who wishes to bring that resolution at the "right" time, you'll certainly have my support.