johnso29

Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not.....regardless SWA's contract is not good enough. We need better, plus you can't just slap SWA's contract on the table and say that's what we want. We are 2 completely different airlines.

If you didn't know, we are currently operating under a contract which is basically a BK contract. If we are to help restore this career we need to get a contract better then SWA, not settle for what they have.

Columbia

Nope-no sarcasm whatsoever. I fully expect that due to new contract improvements, many people at southwest (among others) will think of leaving there and coming here, that's all. I implied that the contract will be better in many/most ways and not simply "equal."

shiznit

Just a couple of points....

1) the CAL pre-merger offer to CAL mgt. was roughly 10% MORE than the SWA (incl. 737-800 TA) rates.

2) The UCAL ALPA rate proposal is even more than the pre-merger rate proposal (how much more is unknown to anyone except the JMEC and JNC), plus other gains proposed.

3) CAL has a frozen but still paying AND 12.75% DC
4) UAL has a 16% DC
5) AA has a smaller but working pension AND 11% DC
6) FDX has SOLID pension AND 7% DC

7) AA is on ice, but has new leadership and is trying to find a way to get a deal (they will be forced to come off the 53% increases, but hopefully UCAL will give them a great benchmark to land on top of)

8)FDX is getting ready to start hiring and they are also about to exchange openers at a profitable company....FWIW cargo margins are a lot lower than they used to be, but still pretty solid.

9) Airtran pilots yet another LCC will be brought up to SWA levels.


ANYBODY WHO WANTS "SWA PAY" AT DAL IS SHOOTING WAY WAY WAY TOO LOW.

IN ALL LIKELIHOOD WE WILL BE AIMING AT A REALISTIC OPENER OF SWA +25-30%, 17-20%DC, PLUS OTHER CHANGES FOR THE BETTER!


**IMHO, the UCAL, AT/SWA merger contract, AA contract and FDX contract are all up for renewal and possibly getting signed BEFORE we even exchange openers........
That is why I think that the MEC has not come out with a "target/mission statement of goals for C1012" YET.....
I think they are afraid of not asking for enough at the outset and then getting blamed for being not demanding enough. I'm glad I'm not part of the upcoming MEC, its a real rock and a hard place.

Desperado

Incident: Delta B753 near Colorado Springs on Dec 30th 2010, engine shut down in flight

FlyingViking

Good to hear everybody is safe.

DAL 88 Driver

Not sure I'm following your logic here. If you think +53% is so outrageous that AA "will be forced" to come off of it, then how do you come up with the idea that we should be aiming at a "realistic opener" of SWA +25-30%?

SWA's current 12 year Captain rate is $210. Our current 12 year 737 Captain rate is $168. SWA + 30% would yield a rate of $273. It would take a 63% increase to our current 737 Captain rate to bring it up to $273.

Last time I checked, 63 is greater (and some would say "less realistic") than 53. (And just to be clear, I totally agree that this would be an appropriate increase for us.)

johnso29

Ok. Just checking.

DALMD88FO

And at what payrate? The -400 pays about 13 bucks an hour more.

PilotFrog

YEa careful with wanting the -400 and rest of the ERs same cockpit. It would mean less people on reserve because any trained pilot could fly any of those jets. CAL is like this, but they get different pay depending on the jet you fly that trip. Imagine trying to figure out what you'd be getting paid that month, and on reserve do you get 400 or only if you fly the 400 that month?

shiznit

Because there is no comparable benchmark for AA to use to justify their request. If UCAL and a joint WN/AT contract shows increases, they will be justified (to the NMB, who are the only ones that count) in asking for a percentage increase over what has been agreed upon by other airlines. IF....after the AT/WN and the UCAL gains meet a major gains, then the APA's request will be closer to a "releasable" point. Once a deal is made there, it will then fall on FDX to make some modest gains.

Finally it will be DAL's turn. Provided the others have signed deals that keep raising the bar, it will allow us to reach that beautiful point of "restoration" that so many are aiming for us to achieve (including me, BTW).

Follow my logic now?