Reroute

Carl, I'm not sure if the NWA pilots signed the first offer or not, but here are my notes from DAL's first offer. Since you seem to know so much, could you tell me whether these terms were accepted?

Company 1113 proposal

*200 79 Seat Jets
*Rotation value reduced by minutes under
* 19.5% pay reduction – No raises for 5 years
*100 Seat Pay $88.93
*Delete International Pay
*No Claim
*No Note
*Per Diem $1.80 domestic $2.05 international
*Vacation 2.45 per day eliminate 5th and 6th weeks
*Release time of 15 minutes versus 30
*Crew for flights over 12 hours- 1 Captain and 3 first officers
*No Duty Period Average
*Duty Period Minimum of 3 hours
*No Duty Period Credit
*No Rotation Credit
*Rotation Guarantee: Eliminate guarantee for trips interrupted
shortened due to reroute or irops
*Sick Leave: 20 hours/year full pay, 60% for excess
*Furlough pay reductions
*Eliminate all furlough protections
*No provision to put MPPP money in pilots control if pension is terminated
*Long term disability only 2 years coverage unless completely disabled and
unable to hold any job.
*5 year duration

acl65pilot

Latest guidance is a small one in late Jan and a larger one with a 365 day conversion in the second quarter 2011.

chuck416

I had forgotten how BAD our BK contract negotiations actually WERE.

acl65pilot

Reroute, that is enough to make anyone want to barf! Ugh....

jetnwa

Alfa,


Although I am new to this forum, I think your memory of NWA history is a little off esp with the NWA F/As events in Ch-11. Carl is correct in the fact the pilots took the first deal as there was a veiled pension threat termination driving the vote.


The F/As really held their ground on many issues. One of the biggest things they kept was the minimum day in which we lost. Quite frankly, that was huge as our NB schedules were terrible after Ch-11.


The F/As were under a tremendous amount of pressure to capitulate and they really delayed things during Ch-11. Management had already exterminated the AMFA mechs and the EMT was threatening the F/As with Replacement F/As ads in newspapers. There was also the ever present threat of outsourcing the Asia lines to Asia based, non-contract F/As.


The F/As delayed the contract so long that NWA management had to petition the CH-11 judge with their Executive Compensation Plan. The company couldn't wait any longer. The jist was DS would walk away with 26 million dollars and others would get 10 million etc.


The final F/A vote for the last contract offer was extremely close and nothing near crawling back to the company. NWA finally settled the AMFA strike (basically paid some sort of severance to the striking mechs who lost their jobs to the Replacement Mechs) and the company exited Ch-11.


The claim sale may have been in issue for the F/A to vote yes on the final contract but there is no doubt who was the thorn in the side to NWA management during CH-11. It was the F/As pure and simple.


This is how I remembered it all going down.....

alfaromeo

I don't know how the pilot negotiations went, I was concentrating on our own problems. The flight attendants had their contract rejected by the bankruptcy judge. The judge allowed management to impose a contract which was the second failed TA (the one under AFA). The flight attendants were barred by injunction from striking. So they ended up with an imposed contract and no right to strike, that doesn't sound like a position of power to me.

They only settled on a deal at the very end in order to get a small bankruptcy claim. They also converted a lump sum meant for early retirement to other compensation. This was the only change to their imposed contract of any substance. The flight attendants were definitely a pain to management, but the question is what did they get from it. None of the deals varied by any significant degree from the first failed TA.

Clearly their compensation was less than what the Delta flight attendants got with no contract, especially when you consider the Delta F/A's got a much bigger share of the stock. So if your goal is to be a pain to management, the NWA F/A's succeeded. If your goal was to maximize your compensation, they came up short.

I don't know anything about AMFA and their strike, but that did not seem to work out well for them from the little I heard. Maybe you know something different. Certainly, it didn't take the mechanics very long to ditch AMFA and take the Delta non-contract deal after the merger closed.

jetnwa

Alfa,

As with you, I didn't keep up with the DAL issues in your Ch-11 IMHO, NWA management wanted AMFA off the property and there were IAM issues after they were voted off the property that added to the issue. NWA spent a lot of money to exterminate them and they did.


To say the NWA F/As failed is being a bit naive. The DAL F/As compensation may be better but there are other areas of job security that was being threatened. The fact is the NWA F/As pushed the envelope in unknown Ch-11 territory that no one else did. You say the company imposed but there is no determination that such a contract would be enforced after the company left Ch-11 and the F/As could have pushed the issue. You can't make someone come back to work if they don't want to.


In hindsight, it makes sense why NWA settled the F/A contract with improvements than what they were first offered. They also settled the AMFA strike as to not have issues after CH-11. IMHO, they wanted a neat package for exit financing and to be ready for the merger. It doesn't matter now as management can do what they want with the other employee groups with no worries about pushback. Those issues aren't my fight.


I don't want to infere anything from your post but are you suggesting that if under Ch-11, the pilot group should take management's first offer and not be a pain to them in being afraid of having a judge impose a contract?


I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but RA's modus operandi is this, "when the going gets tough, RA will get going". I just saw DS getting on an airplane last week. I have no illusions if things head south again and the ax has to fall, you will see some of the characters we dealt with in CH-11. These guys mean business and the first sound people will hear is their heads hitting the floor.

RockyBoy

Yep. A complete re-design of the 737 will take more than 10 years. About the best thing they can do is re-open the 757 line and hang GTF's on that airframe. Making the A320 15% more efficient makes it a viable transcon airframe and would allow us to have an all Airbus domestic fleet. That could save us alot of money vs. having a domestic fleet of 5 different types.

acl65pilot

Delta wishes they would reopen that line

Heck they did that, took out on of the hyd systems and put new motors on it, that sucker would sell like wild fire.

Dash8widget

168 pilots on the MSP 88B category list for January - projected to have 90 lines. That puts the bottom line holder at about 54%. Awesome

Of course, it's been this way since the base opened last march - and I know that a chunk of those 168 are still in the training/OE pipeline - but enough already! I sit about 70% and only got a line this month because so many senior to me bid reserve to get holidays off.