Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
10-14-2010, 08:00 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: 320B
Posts: 781
No...not even close to something that well planned. This was very simple. Airline management were sick of paying pilots what they were paying them. Every time they tried to reduce it, pilots threatened some kind of labor action. Management finally figured out a way. Get people to cave in on scope language and outsource the flying to pilots who will do the job for far, far less. After all, pilots are pilots...there will always be pilots willing to work for next to nothing...right? The RJ guys proved the latter to be correct, we major guys proved to be short sighted idiots for agreeing.
Disturbingly simple actually.
Carl
Disturbingly simple actually.
Carl
There it is, proof that the egg came first! Oh wait, maybe that is the chicken, I can't remember now
10-14-2010, 08:02 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: 7ERB, no M88, no 7ER, no A320, NEXT!
Posts: 397
The difference between me and guys like Carl is that I am not interested in laying blame. That aside, as I have stated before, the best thing for all 121 pilots is for RJ's to go away. Nor ALPA, USAPA, SWAPA, APA, IPA, or any other acronym can do this for us. We must demand that flying back through our own LOCAL councils.
Finding someone to blame might make you feel better, for about 5 minutes, but ultimately it will not solve the problem.
Get over it, get off your ass, and do something CONSTRUCTIVE about it!
Finding someone to blame might make you feel better, for about 5 minutes, but ultimately it will not solve the problem.
Get over it, get off your ass, and do something CONSTRUCTIVE about it!
10-14-2010, 08:04 PM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Your problem with me is that I place any blame on anyone except the major guys. You don't like that I lay half the blame on the guys flying the RJ's. You believe RJ pilots are blameless...I get that. I disagree.
Lots of other ways to fly...been discussed already many times.
I've always accepted my share of the blame for this. This despite the fact that I ALWAYS voted against every contract that had scope relaxation in it. But my vote doesn't matter, because the majority did cave on scope. I was part of the group, so I share the blame. You guys refuse to accept any.
I can tell.
Carl
10-14-2010, 08:06 PM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
10-14-2010, 08:11 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: 7ERB, no M88, no 7ER, no A320, NEXT!
Posts: 397
Then I am not sure how you can continue to blame the RJ pilots?
If I follow your logic then you actually thought that it was ok to cave on scope because you didn't think anyone would fly the airplanes for those wages?
Either way Captain, you have got to get past it. ALPA does not serve 2 masters. The local councils serve their pilots and nothing else matters in the structure of the system.
And that is just a fact.
If I follow your logic then you actually thought that it was ok to cave on scope because you didn't think anyone would fly the airplanes for those wages?
Either way Captain, you have got to get past it. ALPA does not serve 2 masters. The local councils serve their pilots and nothing else matters in the structure of the system.
And that is just a fact.
10-14-2010, 08:13 PM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
If the RJ guys are really not interesting in placing blame, then stop blaming. You stop blaming, then I'll stop correcting you.
Anyway, 30 RJ guys against 1 old fart = inability to type fast enough. Going to bed now. Have fun.
Carl
10-14-2010, 08:16 PM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Because after we caved on scope, none of that caving would have mattered if nobody took the jobs. Management would have been left with huge egg on their faces. I don't run from my share of the blame...you have some too.
Never thought it was OK to cave. I BEGGED my fellow pilots at the time not to fall for the bait and switch. I lost, thus I am to blame as well.
Nighty night,
Carl
Nighty night,
Carl
10-14-2010, 08:24 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: maddoggy dog
Posts: 1,026
Of course you are. These boards are full of the RJ dominated population constantly blaming the major guys. I've disturbed the echo chamber by telling you that you're partly to blame, and the echo chamber claims they've never cared about who is to blame. There are many thousands of posts that clearly show the contrary.
If the RJ guys are really not interesting in placing blame, then stop blaming. You stop blaming, then I'll stop correcting you.
Anyway, 30 RJ guys against 1 old fart = inability to type fast enough. Going to bed now. Have fun.
Carl
If the RJ guys are really not interesting in placing blame, then stop blaming. You stop blaming, then I'll stop correcting you.
Anyway, 30 RJ guys against 1 old fart = inability to type fast enough. Going to bed now. Have fun.
Carl
Carl,
I'm back from my cocktail and the hot tub. Did you get your experience from the military or from the civilian world prior to NWA?
If you want to blame RJ guys what about the guys who got hired before their company got any RJ's? Once their company ordered RJ's should they have quit their jobs even when they didn't have the experience to come to a mainline carrier?
We all worked hard to get here. At least us young guys are trying to keep scope from eroding any further. We get it. Were not going to give away the farm like you senior guys did and then blame someone else for their mistakes. You talk about facts but your wrong. You watch from your 6 story throne. Us young guys lived in the mess you created. We did everything we could from our seat. Hell, my base refused to go to training on the 70 seat RJ when it showed up. Our fight failed after a year but we tried.
APA pilots at least tried to fly the RJ's. Maybe this DPA thingy has some merit.
This is the most important thing------ WE ALL WOULD HAVE PREFERED BEING JUNIOR ON A MAINLINE LIST FLYING THESE PLANES. EVERYONE I'VE EVER FLOWN WITH AT A REGIONAL AGREES WITH THIS. WHEN WE GOT INTO THIS BUISINESS WE THOUGHT WE'D FLY TURBOPROPS AT A $HITTY REGIONAL AND MOVE ON TO A MAJOR IN THE SMALLEST JET. Somehow, somewhere, someone screwed up and allowed small jets at the regional level. Lets fix it.
10-14-2010, 08:46 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Of course you are. These boards are full of the RJ dominated population constantly blaming the major guys. I've disturbed the echo chamber by telling you that you're partly to blame, and the echo chamber claims they've never cared about who is to blame. There are many thousands of posts that clearly show the contrary.
If the RJ guys are really not interesting in placing blame, then stop blaming. You stop blaming, then I'll stop correcting you.
Anyway, 30 RJ guys against 1 old fart = inability to type fast enough. Going to bed now. Have fun.
Carl
If the RJ guys are really not interesting in placing blame, then stop blaming. You stop blaming, then I'll stop correcting you.
Anyway, 30 RJ guys against 1 old fart = inability to type fast enough. Going to bed now. Have fun.
Carl
So there.
10-14-2010, 09:20 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Well gentlemen, the bed is made(scope) and we made it. Does not matter Who tucked in the sheets or put the pillowcase on the pillow, the fact is the bed is made. It is lumpy, old, smelly, and doesn't lend itself to a good nights sleep. New sheets might help, but it is time for a whole new mattress. That's what we gotta figure out, what kind of mattress to get so we can get a good nights sleep. Also we need some new sheets to go along with that new mattress and box spring. Just who do we pick to get that new mattress for us now that Moak is departing. I see that we have 2 options, 1. Lay here in this lumpy bed and complain about who made it. or 2. Figure out a way to get a new bed with nice new sheets. Sooner or later the company will need something really bad. It always comes around and that is when we go mattress shopping but we really need the right guys shopping for us. Don't forget a couple of new feather pillows to boot.
If so, I'm sure someone will make the comment "those aren't pillows!" But what if they're not just being funny?
And will we hire anyone to entertain us with pillow fights? And who will we hire? And do we get a vote? Do we get to vote on who does the hiring?
I'm really upset and worried that someone is going to put their hands between two pillows that aren't and we're going to end up hiring two RJ dudes to pillow fight because "they're cheaper." I'm very upset. I don't want to be fondled while trying to gouge out my own eyes.
Man, you really know how to make a guy feel bad about eating his miniature, albeit annoying, owl.
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