Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
10-14-2010, 11:38 AM
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10-14-2010, 11:44 AM
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10-14-2010, 11:44 AM
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The second and third generation RJ's are more fuel efficient on a seat and stage length adjusted basis than any of our Douglas equipment except for the MD90.
Also, the company would rather fly a CRJ900 with 76 seats full than a MD90 or 73N with lower than average load factors.
Of course the CRJ 100 & 200 are up in the DC9 range on CASM.
Just advising that fuel prices will not fix our scope problem. Wishful thinking, although I am with you.
Also, the company would rather fly a CRJ900 with 76 seats full than a MD90 or 73N with lower than average load factors.
Of course the CRJ 100 & 200 are up in the DC9 range on CASM.
Just advising that fuel prices will not fix our scope problem. Wishful thinking, although I am with you.
---
BTW, how much does it really cost to acquire a CRJ900 for Delta?
Not the published sale price but the probable price or monthly lease.
10-14-2010, 11:53 AM
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What DAL pays is NDA. A good guess is a lot less than the published price.
10-14-2010, 11:55 AM
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I am assuming you are a new hire and this is for your initial sim training. I would go ask on the DALPA forum as well. Maybe see if some of the pilots hired before you are up there, and see what they are doing for lodging.
10-14-2010, 12:14 PM
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Most regional pilots I know say "SCREW THIS JOB" I wish those major airline pilots would grow some balls and not give away the farm!! Who wants to make a carreer at Mesa....uuggggg.
I used to commute weekly on UAL up and down the west coast. I had the same senior captain a few times. Each time he saw me he'd go on a rant about how regional pilots were ruining the industry. At that time my airline was taking delivery of shiny new 30 seat turbo-props....wow, I now had a hot 23 year flight attendant to look at and an APU!! We had just started getting a handful of RJ's to fly for UAL.
I got sick of sitting on my thumb and listening to his rant so I did some research on RJ proliferation at that time. Next week I brought the research that the American pilots had done. I also looked into how the regionals got the first RJ and how other major ALPA carriers pilots did not want to fly these jets due to the low offered pay scales that could potentially lower the bigger jets pay rates.
Armed with my info I politely asked for the jumpseat. It was the same senior UAL captain that greeted me with the usual, "aahh, it's the mosquito pilot trying to bum a ride again. You guys are trying to steal my job. Have a seat." The FO just shook his head in disgust.
We got to cruise and he started the rant again. This time I pulled out my ammo and we had a good debate. I presented facts, he presented emotion. He got upset when his FO looked at him and said, "you know, the mosquito pilot is right." After a few minutes of silence he admitted that I may have been right.
Carl, I didn't hit the lottery to get to Delta. I worked my way up through a system created over decades. This is the route civilian pilots take. Civilian pilots are heavily reliant on the path the senior pilots have carved for the junior guys. The decision senior pilots at a major airline made over the last 15-20 years are what created this mess. Now we have to fix it.
I used to commute weekly on UAL up and down the west coast. I had the same senior captain a few times. Each time he saw me he'd go on a rant about how regional pilots were ruining the industry. At that time my airline was taking delivery of shiny new 30 seat turbo-props....wow, I now had a hot 23 year flight attendant to look at and an APU!! We had just started getting a handful of RJ's to fly for UAL.
I got sick of sitting on my thumb and listening to his rant so I did some research on RJ proliferation at that time. Next week I brought the research that the American pilots had done. I also looked into how the regionals got the first RJ and how other major ALPA carriers pilots did not want to fly these jets due to the low offered pay scales that could potentially lower the bigger jets pay rates.
Armed with my info I politely asked for the jumpseat. It was the same senior UAL captain that greeted me with the usual, "aahh, it's the mosquito pilot trying to bum a ride again. You guys are trying to steal my job. Have a seat." The FO just shook his head in disgust.
We got to cruise and he started the rant again. This time I pulled out my ammo and we had a good debate. I presented facts, he presented emotion. He got upset when his FO looked at him and said, "you know, the mosquito pilot is right." After a few minutes of silence he admitted that I may have been right.
Carl, I didn't hit the lottery to get to Delta. I worked my way up through a system created over decades. This is the route civilian pilots take. Civilian pilots are heavily reliant on the path the senior pilots have carved for the junior guys. The decision senior pilots at a major airline made over the last 15-20 years are what created this mess. Now we have to fix it.
Two stories, one I've told but I like to repeat.
First, was a rj pilot walking down the concourse with the two Delta pilots. The rj pilot had just commuted in on their js. Anyways, I think Chautauqua or one of those other DAL feeders came up in conversation and he said "yeah, those guys are stealing our flying." Sometimes you've got to laugh, and I did when I heard it - despite being an RJ pilot at the time.
Second, was me. Back in 2003 I lived in North Royalton OH while based in CLE for XJT. I didn't have anything going on so I went to the bar at Applebees for dinner. The cute bartender knew I was a Coex pilot, so she introduced me to the two guys sitting next to me, both CAL pilots. She said "FTB flies for Continental Express." I was happy go lucky, said hi. I think for the next 10 minutes or so thats all I got to say. The guy lost it on me in the restaurant. His buddy pulled him out of the bar. It was bad. They didn't even pay and I don't think the manager cared, they just wanted them out. The bartender was like "what the heck?!?"
For the longest time after that I had a "**** YOU CAL" attitude because he wasn't the only one who would do that, especially if you rode their JSs. Unlike DAL, NWA, UAL and AMR, I don't think for many years that the top candidates went to the labor/ch11 mess that was CAL. Thankfully a year at the Blocked Inn in EWR introduced me to a lot of great CAL pilots, but thats beside the point, thinking back to his arguments- Coex must scope themselves, we were killing the industry and our airplanes sucked. First, I can't scope myself and if I could why am I going to do that on your behalf so you can get $2 more an hour?? That's your job. Second, I can't do anything about the industry from my seat! I don't think my Captains even know my name and I can't even get anyone outside of scheduling to acknowledge I existed. And lastly, you may hate my jet but I sure hate middle seats on CALs 735 and 739s too and people like vallet baggage, I'll take it any day over being in a mainline jet when the overhead bins go full.
At the time Coex was getting more jets and yes, you know more jets with you means less over there but at the same time if you don't care about the carrier your feeding then your mission is very simple - get jets, expand, upgrade, get the hell out of this hell hole. The happiness about more jets, especially back then, shouldn't be misconstrued by mainline pilots as anything more than "I want 1000 TPIC ASAP". Not every DCI pilot is wanting DAL.
That was at least my mindset fwiw.
For the life of me, the only airplane I wish were at a regional was a range limited prop. It just means more jobs at mainline and less at a regional and hopefully quick upgrades and you hit 1000 TPIC faster and get out. 3-4 years at a Colgan vs 10 years at AE/ASA/OH/XJT etc to right seat at DAL is a no brainer.
Last edited by forgot to bid; 10-14-2010 at 12:25 PM.
10-14-2010, 12:21 PM
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If we're really paying or were going to pay $8M for an MD90 to go from China to the line and given I think the big RJs were published at prices of $35M range, not sure if thats current, but its probably a safe bet to say a CRJ900 comes in probably at least 2X the cost of 160 seat MD90.
Just curious, not going anywhere really, just playing with numbers.
10-14-2010, 12:24 PM
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I was told once that average lease for a commercial aircraft is about 1% the purchase price of the aircraft per month. Using that once and hearing that Coex was paying like $100K or $120K a month for their leases then their jets were coming in about 1/2 the published sale price.
If we're really paying or were going to pay $8M for an MD90 to go from China to the line and given I think the big RJs were published at prices of $35M range, not sure if thats current, but its probably a safe bet to say a CRJ900 comes in probably at least 2X the cost of 160 seat MD90.
Just curious, not going anywhere really, just playing with numbers.
If we're really paying or were going to pay $8M for an MD90 to go from China to the line and given I think the big RJs were published at prices of $35M range, not sure if thats current, but its probably a safe bet to say a CRJ900 comes in probably at least 2X the cost of 160 seat MD90.
Just curious, not going anywhere really, just playing with numbers.
10-14-2010, 12:27 PM
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10-14-2010, 12:33 PM
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The MD-90 is a no brainer. A used 777, 744, 320, 73N would be a great deal too. No need to pay for new car smell when that new car cost as much to operate as the used one. 
(same jet to same jet)
I doubt you will see DAL order another 76 seat jet.
(same jet to same jet)I doubt you will see DAL order another 76 seat jet.
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