Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
10-11-2010, 08:55 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Scambo;
It happened to me and another pilot I know and both of us checked and were told it was totally legal. They do it all of the time on the 73N for MAO and they do it all of the time on the big birds for international Augmented flights.
It happened to me and another pilot I know and both of us checked and were told it was totally legal. They do it all of the time on the 73N for MAO and they do it all of the time on the big birds for international Augmented flights.
10-11-2010, 08:57 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Bar;
We need pilots last summer is self evident of that.
Also not growing costs money too. a lot of it. Most airlines grow to spread the labor and other costs out over more seats.
Why would we not add pilots? Would there possibly be something bigger on the horizon that may allow us to staff the need?
I think, maybe. Even with a 2% YOY block hr increase, which by the way is well below what we wanted, we need more than 305 bodies.
The NWA merger was back on so quick that no one had enough time to stop hiring.
We need pilots last summer is self evident of that.
Also not growing costs money too. a lot of it. Most airlines grow to spread the labor and other costs out over more seats.
Why would we not add pilots? Would there possibly be something bigger on the horizon that may allow us to staff the need?
I think, maybe. Even with a 2% YOY block hr increase, which by the way is well below what we wanted, we need more than 305 bodies.
The NWA merger was back on so quick that no one had enough time to stop hiring.
10-11-2010, 09:04 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,906
You cannot compare a NWA/DAL SLI to a SLI with a domestic carrier like AS. Apples and Oranges.
A 2001 hire is a very senior FO over at AS.
It would not be the methodology used for our SLI, it could not be. Now a merger etc with HI would be similar as they fly ULH, LH and domestic short Haul.
I suspect that whatever happens if and when it happens it will be as fair as it can be. Career expectations will come in to ply. Our 757 being paid at a WB rate will help tremendously.
A 2001 hire is a very senior FO over at AS.
It would not be the methodology used for our SLI, it could not be. Now a merger etc with HI would be similar as they fly ULH, LH and domestic short Haul.
I suspect that whatever happens if and when it happens it will be as fair as it can be. Career expectations will come in to ply. Our 757 being paid at a WB rate will help tremendously.
Heyas ACL,
20 years ago, I'd say you would be right.
Arbitrators these days are all about simplicity and defensibility. "Dissimilar carriers" and "career expectations" are way too vague for them to deal with. Bar is correct...career expectations were completely jettisoned (for both sides) in the DAL/NWA merger with the exception of the very top of both lists.
I'm NOT turning this into a NWA/DAL SLI debate. It is what it is, BUT we'd be really stupid if we didn't look at what worked and what didn't when applied to a new situation.
Every argument that the DAL side used against "premium widebody" will return to visit us all. Arbitrators LOVE recent precedent. It would go category ratio, because it is simple AND defensible with recent precedent....and those of us on the bottom %50 of the list would be fracked.
Otherwise you would need to RADICALLY alter ratios, which will be undefensible by the arbitrators OR have 25 year fences, which is essentially the NWA/REP merger plan, with all the ensuing happy results.
Nu
10-11-2010, 09:12 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
boooooo.
Well, lets look at it. There is 1,453 pilots and 93 of those are on furlough. Anyone know their projected retirements?
btw- it would hurt me but I'd like to start setting a precedent that furloughed pilots are counted as employed during an SLI.
When merged, the reserve pilots will lose a 79 hour guarantee for reserve sc and 75 for lc. Now, if you knock that down to 70 hours wouldn't it require more pilots?
Or what if AMR and DAL split Alaska into a North and South, AMR can have LAX and we'll take SEA/AL. Then we grow LAX.
Well, lets look at it. There is 1,453 pilots and 93 of those are on furlough. Anyone know their projected retirements?
btw- it would hurt me but I'd like to start setting a precedent that furloughed pilots are counted as employed during an SLI.
When merged, the reserve pilots will lose a 79 hour guarantee for reserve sc and 75 for lc. Now, if you knock that down to 70 hours wouldn't it require more pilots?
Or what if AMR and DAL split Alaska into a North and South, AMR can have LAX and we'll take SEA/AL. Then we grow LAX.
The furloughed pilot rule needs to stay the way it is. They just get dibs when there are jobs.
I dont see how the staus / category ratio would brutalize DAL pilots. Just make all the senior 73N/As bid 88 FO and let FTB be the senior -800 captain...done.
I think the SLI would be absolutely harsh to the age 40 something AK FO's. And there are lots of them.
10-11-2010, 09:17 AM
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Bar;
We need pilots last summer is self evident of that.
Also not growing costs money too. a lot of it. Most airlines grow to spread the labor and other costs out over more seats.
Why would we not add pilots? Would there possibly be something bigger on the horizon that may allow us to staff the need?
I think, maybe. Even with a 2% YOY block hr increase, which by the way is well below what we wanted, we need more than 305 bodies.
The NWA merger was back on so quick that no one had enough time to stop hiring.
We need pilots last summer is self evident of that.
Also not growing costs money too. a lot of it. Most airlines grow to spread the labor and other costs out over more seats.
Why would we not add pilots? Would there possibly be something bigger on the horizon that may allow us to staff the need?
I think, maybe. Even with a 2% YOY block hr increase, which by the way is well below what we wanted, we need more than 305 bodies.
The NWA merger was back on so quick that no one had enough time to stop hiring.
10-11-2010, 09:35 AM
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Projected Training/Catergory lists for the last AE are out. 
10-11-2010, 09:42 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
Posts: 1,724
Gotta love ANZ
TSFW, even if it seems NSFW:
Thats ANZ's premium economy seats BTW
Cheers
George
TSFW, even if it seems NSFW:
Thats ANZ's premium economy seats BTW
Cheers
George
10-11-2010, 09:45 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 737A
Posts: 1,890
10-11-2010, 09:46 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,038
Every argument that the DAL side used against "premium widebody" will return to visit us all. Arbitrators LOVE recent precedent. It would go category ratio, because it is simple AND defensible with recent precedent....and those of us on the bottom %50 of the list would be fracked.
Nu
Nu
The really scary part is that the precedents set were ugly:
- Ours was not a category ratio. It was a ratio'd list top to bottom without regard for current category.
- Unknown and unprovable future events, such as retirements were credited as "equities" in the merger. This makes for a real wild card.
If NWA/DAL methodology were used (pure relative seniority) the Alaska 737 Captains would be mixed throughout our 767 ranks and their First Officers would be narrow body Captains. In either event, they will be so much more senior to me that it really does not matter.
I tend to think Hawaiian is a better strategic move. I think an airline or two on the west coast needs to go away before we buy Alaska. If we merge with Alaska now, it could be us that ends up having to pull capacity down to avoid losing big money out there.
10-11-2010, 09:54 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
Just checked and what's on there right now regarding hiring is the same thing that's been on there since late spring/early summer (the 300 already hired). Would be nice though!
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
