Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
10-01-2010, 03:16 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: C47 PIC/747-400 SIC
Posts: 2,100
tried to find the DC9 thread that was on here a while back but no luck,so i figured I would just throw this out into this sprawling monstrosity of a thread, I am now a practicing member of the DC9 tribe,did my bounces in a series -15,freightdog version,I feel the love,makes me smile every time i see a Delta -50.
10-01-2010, 03:54 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
I know this is a few pages back but,
I think he makes some noteworthy points about management's role in during contract negotiations. From what I've understood at DAL, back in the day this was how compensation packages were negotiated. Management would throw a lump of money at the pilot group and the leadership would decide how to divvy it up amongst the pilot group.
What I like about this is that management isn't telling is HOW to pay pilots. I've always thought that we should negotiate a lump sum of money without justification of pay scales. Basically, the union should decide what each specific seat in each aircraft category should pay, then calculate that total amount required to provide that compensation package.
The lump figure is what our union should be negotiating for. The more variables introduced complicates the process while becoming divisive to the pilot group.
Not sure if this is the method used or not, but either way we cannot continue to send crap down the river because long term it only hurts contract negotiations.
I think he makes some noteworthy points about management's role in during contract negotiations. From what I've understood at DAL, back in the day this was how compensation packages were negotiated. Management would throw a lump of money at the pilot group and the leadership would decide how to divvy it up amongst the pilot group.
What I like about this is that management isn't telling is HOW to pay pilots. I've always thought that we should negotiate a lump sum of money without justification of pay scales. Basically, the union should decide what each specific seat in each aircraft category should pay, then calculate that total amount required to provide that compensation package.
The lump figure is what our union should be negotiating for. The more variables introduced complicates the process while becoming divisive to the pilot group.
Not sure if this is the method used or not, but either way we cannot continue to send crap down the river because long term it only hurts contract negotiations.
There is good and bad to this type of negotiation. Positive is you know the value of the contract up front, the negative is you can be killed by a thousand paper cuts.
It is IBB style where the total value is determined but we get killed on the costing of each item. I would be careful about what you wish for. The corporation love this style because the work takes place on the other side of the table and they can then just argue that the cost assigned to each item it not correct.
10-01-2010, 04:02 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Just noticed Mr. Anderson serves as a Board Member for the Federal Reserve Bank in addition to everything else he does.
The man really impresses me. Not only for his competency in our CEO job, but that he's also humble and respectful. Had him on board a few weeks ago. He boarded with other passengers, greeted the crew, took a seat in the back.
Hope Delta gets to keep him for many years to come.
The man really impresses me. Not only for his competency in our CEO job, but that he's also humble and respectful. Had him on board a few weeks ago. He boarded with other passengers, greeted the crew, took a seat in the back.
Hope Delta gets to keep him for many years to come.
It is always nice to see someone enjoy their job and the challenges that go with it. It took a 75% pay cut to come here to do what he loves. I know to pilots that will irk some but it is true.
10-01-2010, 04:23 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,919
Just noticed Mr. Anderson serves as a Board Member for the Federal Reserve Bank in addition to everything else he does.
The man really impresses me. Not only for his competency in our CEO job, but that he's also humble and respectful. Had him on board a few weeks ago. He boarded with other passengers, greeted the crew, took a seat in the back.
Hope Delta gets to keep him for many years to come.
The man really impresses me. Not only for his competency in our CEO job, but that he's also humble and respectful. Had him on board a few weeks ago. He boarded with other passengers, greeted the crew, took a seat in the back.
Hope Delta gets to keep him for many years to come.
Kind of impressive to see how important it is to him to see our flight depart on time, to the minute, while also keeping the first class seats reserved for our customers.
10-01-2010, 04:25 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
He always flies in coach. Never in first.
10-01-2010, 04:33 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,919
There is good and bad to this type of negotiation. Positive is you know the value of the contract up front, the negative is you can be killed by a thousand paper cuts.
It is IBB style where the total value is determined but we get killed on the costing of each item. I would be careful about what you wish for. The corporation love this style because the work takes place on the other side of the table and they can then just argue that the cost assigned to each item it not correct.
It is IBB style where the total value is determined but we get killed on the costing of each item. I would be careful about what you wish for. The corporation love this style because the work takes place on the other side of the table and they can then just argue that the cost assigned to each item it not correct.
Personally, I think management will try to rationalize their position with truckloads of data that very convincingly defends their point of view on why something cannot be afforded. That is a slippery slope to start getting involved with, and I think it is imperative not overstep either sides area of authority/responsibility.
While, I agree, and uncaring, not-my-problem kind of attitude is not the best angle, I also think a easy-going, overaly-amicable approach can be equally as inefficient.
10-01-2010, 04:37 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,919
10-01-2010, 04:50 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
I'm sure their is pros and cons in both negotiating tactics, but I worry about getting the wrong people in charge one day who will attempt to exploit one side of a pilot group against the other. Not that I see that from our current management, but I'm sure roles and actions tend to change when heading to the negotiator's table.
Personally, I think management will try to rationalize their position with truckloads of data that very convincingly defends their point of view on why something cannot be afforded. That is a slippery slope to start getting involved with, and I think it is imperative not overstep either sides area of authority/responsibility.
While, I agree, and uncaring, not-my-problem kind of attitude is not the best angle, I also think a easy-going, overaly-amicable approach can be equally as inefficient.
Personally, I think management will try to rationalize their position with truckloads of data that very convincingly defends their point of view on why something cannot be afforded. That is a slippery slope to start getting involved with, and I think it is imperative not overstep either sides area of authority/responsibility.
While, I agree, and uncaring, not-my-problem kind of attitude is not the best angle, I also think a easy-going, overaly-amicable approach can be equally as inefficient.
All of that can be done with IBB too. The main thing it does is cap the top end of the value off the bat. Values still need to be assigned to each item.
The biggest thing that divided in the past was the FAE and the ability or need to keep that high. Now that it is a DC percentage, it is about the numbers but to a lesser degree the numbers at the top end.
If this group wants to be split there is no tactic that will stop that. Pick and issue and it can be done.
IBB works great if you agree that the number used is based upon today's numbers, value, regulations etc. A change in anything can greatly devalue the total value you agreed to. It at a min as to be off the costs of Day One of talks.
ALPA and the company both spend an enormous amount if time valuing each item. The goal is to keep both sides honest and to get the best valuation you can. The EFA committee at National is always very busy doing this. They do it for LOA's, MOU's and section six agreements.
10-01-2010, 04:50 AM
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
tried to find the DC9 thread that was on here a while back but no luck,so i figured I would just throw this out into this sprawling monstrosity of a thread, I am now a practicing member of the DC9 tribe,did my bounces in a series -15,freightdog version,I feel the love,makes me smile every time i see a Delta -50.
10-01-2010, 04:50 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,014
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