DAL 88 Driver

First of all, Kool-Aid is spelled with a "K".

Second of all, I agree with you that this is the way it is with our management and with pretty much all of the management (the one exception being SWA) in this industry. But I can also guarantee you that the philosophy you cite is NOT a successful business strategy. It has been a time tested and proven business philosophy that treating your employees as a valuable asset results in much better success for a business. Unfortunately, this MEC pretends like we are dealing with a management that treats us as an asset when, in reality, they do not. (Lip service doesn't count.) So this "proactive engagement", relationship building stuff is just not appropriate in this situation. I'm guessing from your post that you would agree with that last statement?

Anyway, here's a short video that I think is interesting regarding this topic:

Tom Peters: American vs Southwest

DAL 88 Driver

You could be right, Xray. But I still think we should at least try. That flying should have never been outsourced in the first place, and I think a good case can be made that it's doing more than just taking pilot jobs... it's actually hurting Delta Air Lines.

80ktsClamp

Agreed.

If they really care about the product, insourcing should be a priority for them as well.

Besides, the new FARs on rest are going to really hurt the regionals, so it's to both of our advantage in bringing back in small jet scope.

scambo1

If Cal/UAL are successful in their defense of scope, why cant we be?

acl65pilot

Well lets play with this for a little bit. First a question that you can answer and I will answer first.
How long do you think it will take to negotiate a restoration pwa. (60-70% increase) IMHO at least five years. So with that assumption lets go from there.
Get a 20-30% raise on day one of a contract that takes less than a year to negotiate and is effective on Jan 1, 2013 or the amendable date. Add five percent a year for four year. (Same date you would at the earliest get a contract for a 40-70% gain)
So 30 yr 1, 35 yr 2, 40 yr 3, 45 yr four, over 2012 book rates. Now compile that money earned and compare it to what you will have made waiting for four to five years for a contract that may get to total restoration. Add in the extra retirement money along the way. Which one puts more money in your pocket?
Of course if you can force the company to give 100 percent restoration you will have 1) done something most associations have never done, and 2) The above example does not matter.

There are many ways to get to the same point in the same amount of time. It is the time value money approach. Just a thought and I am not suggesting anything. Just offering a counter point for the sake of discussion. You also would be back in section six again at the same point you would have been completing the first round.

I believe that every section six you have gotten just that from your union. Give it time buddy.

For argument's sake.

I am not sure the goal is for management to respect us. We are a line item on a balance sheet. We are needed but we are a cost. Everything is a cost right down to the water we carry on our jets.
I believe it is for the financial institutions to notice us and take note of our cooperative bearing towards the company. They have grown to liking it, and want our opinions.

I also think that the idea of working together is so that two basic things happen. 1) Our company is successful and we are seen internally and externally as a part of it (PR) and 2) With a successful and profitable entity where everyone gains whereas everyone loses with a company that is bleeding all over the balance sheet. Think of the SWA effect in reverse.

I also beleive that our company and specifically Flying Operations values the line pilots input and wants to give you as much support as possible to get the job done safely, with good customer service and as efficiently as possible. I suspect that if we maintain our profitability and things go our way leading towards 2012 we have a better than average change of getting significant restoration. It may not be total restoration as you see it, but it will a far cry from where we have been a few short years ago. No one is selling anyone short. As I have said, it is far to distant to set our demands or desires in stone. We are still in a very fluid situation.

There may come a time to dump this approach but this approach has not stood the test of section six. If it seems to be failing we always have our old ways to fall back on, don't we?

I am not asking you to subscribe to any of this. I am asking you to read it, digest it and think about it.

acl65pilot

Anything is possible with a unified group and the support of other ALPA carriers.

acl65pilot

Like I have said, last time I checked they put a bunch of guys in to LEC Status positions last round that think the same way you and I do. Guess who is going to be around for formulating the proposal for 2012?

Gunfighter

This is exactly the approach we should be taking. Flying Delta passengers on mainline airplanes is good for the company. We will help out the company by flying more of our passengers. Now the company can help us out with better pay rates. It's a win-win.

gloopy

So you're saying we have a 1.6% chance! Sweet!

NuGuy

This is NOT possible. Any sort of ALPA National push for recapturing of the flying will bring DFR suits from the lifers at the regionals. We've seen this before, and now National (AND DALPA) is so parayized by the threat of lawsuits, that you will NEVER see a push for this.

All they want is to keep everyone quiet and keep the dues check-off money flowing.

Alfa and Slow will even say that the CAL/UAL effort is "for negotiating position only" and that the APA effort is full of folly.

There is a REASON that the AirTran boys, as part of their merger, retained their own legal councel for scope.

Nu