Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
09-17-2010, 09:23 AM
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The more I fly with them, the more I find that (surprise, surprise) we're not all that different. They also strike me as pretty smart people. Too smart for 87% to have voted for an inferior product.
09-17-2010, 09:26 AM
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Sure Carl, red is gray and yellow white and we decide which is right, and which is an illusion.
For the rest, in order to decide on a direction forward you at least need to get your facts straight about the past. It took about a 13% increase in total compensation to completely bring the NWA contract completely to the DAL contract. Whether that is better or not you can make the call.
For anyone outside the process or anyone inside NWA, there are few who would say that the NWA pilots came out of bankruptcy as a unified group or a unified MEC. Most would say the the DAL pilots and DAL MEC were unified.
Everyone that had a front row seat to this new labor paradigm in the merger knows that Lee was the guy that created the plan and the Delta MEC worked to create the environment to close the deal. It surely took both sides working together, but there are few who wouldn't say that the Delta side was driving the ship.
This doesn't mean that fDAL pilots are better than fNWA pilots, these discussions always end up in "I'm better than you" arguments that have no purpose. It also doesn't mean that DAL always had better leadership than NWA, these things ebb and flow and will again in the future. My opinion is that we had better leadership going through bankruptcy and through this deal and the results back this up. You can either agree or disagree, but at least deal with facts when you are trying to decide your future. We live in an age of truthiness and spin, where we can actually have people believe there is some Islamic invasion trying to take over America and burning Kurans is the only way to stop them. Let's not deceive ourselves in a similar fashion, it rarely leads to good outcomes.
For the rest, in order to decide on a direction forward you at least need to get your facts straight about the past. It took about a 13% increase in total compensation to completely bring the NWA contract completely to the DAL contract. Whether that is better or not you can make the call.
For anyone outside the process or anyone inside NWA, there are few who would say that the NWA pilots came out of bankruptcy as a unified group or a unified MEC. Most would say the the DAL pilots and DAL MEC were unified.
Everyone that had a front row seat to this new labor paradigm in the merger knows that Lee was the guy that created the plan and the Delta MEC worked to create the environment to close the deal. It surely took both sides working together, but there are few who wouldn't say that the Delta side was driving the ship.
This doesn't mean that fDAL pilots are better than fNWA pilots, these discussions always end up in "I'm better than you" arguments that have no purpose. It also doesn't mean that DAL always had better leadership than NWA, these things ebb and flow and will again in the future. My opinion is that we had better leadership going through bankruptcy and through this deal and the results back this up. You can either agree or disagree, but at least deal with facts when you are trying to decide your future. We live in an age of truthiness and spin, where we can actually have people believe there is some Islamic invasion trying to take over America and burning Kurans is the only way to stop them. Let's not deceive ourselves in a similar fashion, it rarely leads to good outcomes.
The other thing Carl did not mention was the long length of the NWA contract with zero raises. The Delta contract had raises and a short amendable date. It would have expired last spring had we not signed a extension with the JC agreement. The extension was the biggest reason I voted no.
09-17-2010, 09:29 AM
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Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
From another blog:
Looking at DL's current schedules, it looks like they have uploaded the new MD-88 configuration into their schedules. It looks like the row numbers now match up by looking at the overwing exits. The rear galley has been removed, and two seats were added in the F cabin. The new configuration is 16/133.
Two routes that I have found them on include ORF-ATL beginning on November 3, and PHF-ATL beginning on November 15. I am sure there are also several others.
That PHF-ATL by the way is a route I'm very familiar with and in a way, its moving in the right direction. Originally we had 757s and 727s flying ATL-ORF, AirTran ATL-PHF, and of course we had ATL-RIC. I want to say all airlines combined there was possibly 26-28 flights a day between that part of VA and ATL.
Then ASA was sent into PHF with CRJ200s. That grew to 700s, then 88s in the summer season, then 900s and no more 200s and now 3 flights on Sundays are 88s and 737s with 2 weekday 88s in November. Right now in October there are Now, truth be told some of that is siphoning off ORF but for a while there there wasn't any mainline at ORF either but now its back to 7 MD88 flights per day.
All in all, just counting Nov 5 as a random day, there are 22 Delta flights alone from ATL to middle and southeastern VA (RIC-PHF-ORF) and of those only 5 are RJs (3 700s and 2 900s) and there are 3 757s and 1 320 in the mix in RIC but otherwise all 88. And by the way, non-reving in and out of those 3 cities is a pain with PHF being your best hope.
Its a step in the right direction and I don't like typing on iphone.... fwiw.
Looking at DL's current schedules, it looks like they have uploaded the new MD-88 configuration into their schedules. It looks like the row numbers now match up by looking at the overwing exits. The rear galley has been removed, and two seats were added in the F cabin. The new configuration is 16/133.
Two routes that I have found them on include ORF-ATL beginning on November 3, and PHF-ATL beginning on November 15. I am sure there are also several others.
That PHF-ATL by the way is a route I'm very familiar with and in a way, its moving in the right direction. Originally we had 757s and 727s flying ATL-ORF, AirTran ATL-PHF, and of course we had ATL-RIC. I want to say all airlines combined there was possibly 26-28 flights a day between that part of VA and ATL.
Then ASA was sent into PHF with CRJ200s. That grew to 700s, then 88s in the summer season, then 900s and no more 200s and now 3 flights on Sundays are 88s and 737s with 2 weekday 88s in November. Right now in October there are Now, truth be told some of that is siphoning off ORF but for a while there there wasn't any mainline at ORF either but now its back to 7 MD88 flights per day.
All in all, just counting Nov 5 as a random day, there are 22 Delta flights alone from ATL to middle and southeastern VA (RIC-PHF-ORF) and of those only 5 are RJs (3 700s and 2 900s) and there are 3 757s and 1 320 in the mix in RIC but otherwise all 88. And by the way, non-reving in and out of those 3 cities is a pain with PHF being your best hope.
Its a step in the right direction and I don't like typing on iphone.... fwiw.
Last edited by forgot to bid; 09-17-2010 at 09:45 AM.
09-17-2010, 09:34 AM
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The 13% number was not made up, it was the number that your negotiating team agreed to. At SOC a 757 Captain was at $144 an hour, he is now at $175. All Delta pilots averaged about 83 hours per month pay last year so to equal that pay, at NWA you would have had to get paid 101 hours per month to overcome the pay differential. In 2008, fNWA pilots averaged 20 minutes a month more pay than fDAL pilots, somehow getting to to 18 hours per month extra seems off base.
09-17-2010, 09:36 AM
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Position: 320B
Posts: 781
The requirement to be relieved of all duty for 24 hours in any 7
consecutive days applies to all pilots except international 4-man
crew. The 7 consecutive days are considered to be calendar days,
while the 24 hours may be any 24 consecutive hours, i.e., not necessarily
a calendar day, and may occur on a layover.
Note that this is a flight limitation. A pilot may fly for 6 days and
train or deadhead on the 7th day. A reserve pilot may be on call for
any number of consecutive days, but must have been released from
telephone responsibilities for 24 hours at some point in the past 7
days prior to reporting for domestic flight duty.
09-17-2010, 09:38 AM
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Posts: 19,596
This summer many former NWA pilots are seeing one of their best years ever for pay. One 747 Captain had 218 hours pay for July. The other Captain on the same flight had 186. My pay is going to be above 08 levels or almost 35,000 more then 09 this year. Most pilots are going to see large increases from 09.
09-17-2010, 09:46 AM
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Position: 320B
Posts: 781
The fact is that all pilots at Delta made a lot less money in 09. In my case 30,000 dollars less. This was because of the crash in air travel in 09. Everyone had greatly reduced flight hours. It will not be the case in 10. When the Joint contract was being negotiated they looked at total credit hours for both pilot groups on average. The DAL contract ended up with more credit hours per pilot however they were very close. The payrates were however higher.
This summer many former NWA pilots are seeing one of their best years ever for pay. One 747 Captain had 218 hours pay for July. The other Captain on the same flight had 186. My pay is going to be above 08 levels or almost 35,000 more then 09 this year. Most pilots are going to see large increases from 09.
This summer many former NWA pilots are seeing one of their best years ever for pay. One 747 Captain had 218 hours pay for July. The other Captain on the same flight had 186. My pay is going to be above 08 levels or almost 35,000 more then 09 this year. Most pilots are going to see large increases from 09.
Show me the money!!!
09-17-2010, 09:48 AM
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Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
From the wsc:
The requirement to be relieved of all duty for 24 hours in any 7
consecutive days applies to all pilots except international 4-man
crew. The 7 consecutive days are considered to be calendar days,
while the 24 hours may be any 24 consecutive hours, i.e., not necessarily
a calendar day, and may occur on a layover.
Note that this is a flight limitation. A pilot may fly for 6 days and
train or deadhead on the 7th day. A reserve pilot may be on call for
any number of consecutive days, but must have been released from
telephone responsibilities for 24 hours at some point in the past 7
days prior to reporting for domestic flight duty.
The requirement to be relieved of all duty for 24 hours in any 7
consecutive days applies to all pilots except international 4-man
crew. The 7 consecutive days are considered to be calendar days,
while the 24 hours may be any 24 consecutive hours, i.e., not necessarily
a calendar day, and may occur on a layover.
Note that this is a flight limitation. A pilot may fly for 6 days and
train or deadhead on the 7th day. A reserve pilot may be on call for
any number of consecutive days, but must have been released from
telephone responsibilities for 24 hours at some point in the past 7
days prior to reporting for domestic flight duty.
In honor of 1234s hard work... YouTube - Sesame Street: Feist sings 1,2,3,4
09-17-2010, 09:50 AM
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Posts: 5,113
09-17-2010, 09:52 AM
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Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: 320B
Posts: 781
ah, thanks! It was a deadhead on the last day, i was wondering how he was assigned a trip that went 7 in a row but yet was deemed legal to start legal to finish but it was because of a 7th day dh.
In honor of 1234s hard work... youtube - sesame street: Feist sings 1,2,3,4
In honor of 1234s hard work... youtube - sesame street: Feist sings 1,2,3,4
lol........
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