Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
09-15-2010, 07:40 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: DAL FO
Posts: 2,165
Why was that a mistake? If the awards came out before Oct. 1st, wouldn't you have been frozen?
I know there were a lot of guys that regretted bidding a certain piece of equiment, and had October 1st freezes that they were sweating big time, based on the timing of this award.
I don't mind the union asking the company to move an award slightly to help guys out, but I don't like it to be marketed as a mistake, if it isn't a mistake.
If I'm missing something, let me know. Thanks.
I know there were a lot of guys that regretted bidding a certain piece of equiment, and had October 1st freezes that they were sweating big time, based on the timing of this award.
I don't mind the union asking the company to move an award slightly to help guys out, but I don't like it to be marketed as a mistake, if it isn't a mistake.
If I'm missing something, let me know. Thanks.
It appears you are confusing the date the AE results are published, with the conversion window.
The conversion window for this bid begins on Oct. 1, 2010 and is therefore the earliest "conversion date" per the contract section I pasted below.
35. “Category freeze” means a period of time
a. that is determined under
a. that is determined under
Section 22 G.,
b. that commences on the date of a pilot’s award of an AE or VD for which qualification
training is required, and
c. during which the pilot will (unless declared eligible by the Company) be ineligible to
be awarded another AE with an earliest conversion date falling within the freeze
period (other than to a new or reestablished category) for which qualification training
b. that commences on the date of a pilot’s award of an AE or VD for which qualification
training is required, and
c. during which the pilot will (unless declared eligible by the Company) be ineligible to
be awarded another AE with an earliest conversion date falling within the freeze
period (other than to a new or reestablished category) for which qualification training
is required.
This is where the interpretation problem came from. In iCrew it says my "Freeze Expires: 01OCT10" and crew planning was saying that I was therefore not eligible. My argument was if the freeze is expired on the 1st, then how am I ineligible for this bid as I wouldn't be on a freeze on the "earliest conversion date."
I had pretty much given up on this bid as I was told by several different people in Crew Resources that this was how it has "always been done."
I am glad the union followed up on this though, as I'm sure there are many other guys in the same boat.
No cover up here. No scheme being "marketed as a mistake."
09-15-2010, 07:46 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: DAL FO
Posts: 2,165
It was more of an interpretation issue than anything, but I don't see it as being "marketed" as anything sinister.
It appears you are confusing the date the AE results are published, with the conversion window.
The conversion window for this bid begins on Oct. 1, 2010 and is therefore the earliest "conversion date" per the contract section I pasted below.
This is where the interpretation problem came from. In iCrew it says my "Freeze Expires: 01OCT10" and crew planning was saying that I was therefore not eligible. My argument was if the freeze is expired on the 1st, then how am I ineligible for this bid as I wouldn't be on a freeze on the "earliest conversion date."
I had pretty much given up on this bid as I was told by several different people in Crew Resources that this was how it has "always been done."
I am glad the union followed up on this though, as I'm sure there are many other guys in the same boat.
No cover up here. No scheme being "marketed as a mistake."
It appears you are confusing the date the AE results are published, with the conversion window.
The conversion window for this bid begins on Oct. 1, 2010 and is therefore the earliest "conversion date" per the contract section I pasted below.
35. “Category freeze” means a period of time
a. that is determined under Section 22 G.,
b. that commences on the date of a pilot’s award of an AE or VD for which qualification
training is required, and
c. during which the pilot will (unless declared eligible by the Company) be ineligible to
be awarded another AE with an earliest conversion date falling within the freeze
period (other than to a new or reestablished category) for which qualification training
is required.a. that is determined under Section 22 G.,
b. that commences on the date of a pilot’s award of an AE or VD for which qualification
training is required, and
c. during which the pilot will (unless declared eligible by the Company) be ineligible to
be awarded another AE with an earliest conversion date falling within the freeze
period (other than to a new or reestablished category) for which qualification training
This is where the interpretation problem came from. In iCrew it says my "Freeze Expires: 01OCT10" and crew planning was saying that I was therefore not eligible. My argument was if the freeze is expired on the 1st, then how am I ineligible for this bid as I wouldn't be on a freeze on the "earliest conversion date."
I had pretty much given up on this bid as I was told by several different people in Crew Resources that this was how it has "always been done."
I am glad the union followed up on this though, as I'm sure there are many other guys in the same boat.
No cover up here. No scheme being "marketed as a mistake."
Sink r8,
To further clarify. The date the results are published BEGINS your freeze (if you are awarded something) but it does not enter the equation for a pilots eligibility on the current bid. The only thing that matters is the beginning date of the conversion window. Your 2 year freeze must have expired on or before the first day of the conversion window.
Hope that cleared it up a little.
09-15-2010, 07:50 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 710
It was more of an interpretation issue than anything, but I don't see it as being "marketed" as anything sinister.
It appears you are confusing the date the AE results are published, with the conversion window.
The conversion window for this bid begins on Oct. 1, 2010 and is therefore the earliest "conversion date" per the contract section I pasted below.
is required.
This is where the interpretation problem came from. In iCrew it says my "Freeze Expires: 01OCT10" and crew planning was saying that I was therefore not eligible. My argument was if the freeze is expired on the 1st, then how am I ineligible for this bid as I wouldn't be on a freeze on the "earliest conversion date."
I had pretty much given up on this bid as I was told by several different people in Crew Resources that this was how it has "always been done."
I am glad the union followed up on this though, as I'm sure there are many other guys in the same boat.
No cover up here. No scheme being "marketed as a mistake."
It appears you are confusing the date the AE results are published, with the conversion window.
The conversion window for this bid begins on Oct. 1, 2010 and is therefore the earliest "conversion date" per the contract section I pasted below.
35. “Category freeze” means a period of time
a. that is determined under
a. that is determined under
Section 22 G.,
b. that commences on the date of a pilot’s award of an AE or VD for which qualification
training is required, and
c. during which the pilot will (unless declared eligible by the Company) be ineligible to
be awarded another AE with an earliest conversion date falling within the freeze
period (other than to a new or reestablished category) for which qualification training
b. that commences on the date of a pilot’s award of an AE or VD for which qualification
training is required, and
c. during which the pilot will (unless declared eligible by the Company) be ineligible to
be awarded another AE with an earliest conversion date falling within the freeze
period (other than to a new or reestablished category) for which qualification training
is required.
This is where the interpretation problem came from. In iCrew it says my "Freeze Expires: 01OCT10" and crew planning was saying that I was therefore not eligible. My argument was if the freeze is expired on the 1st, then how am I ineligible for this bid as I wouldn't be on a freeze on the "earliest conversion date."
I had pretty much given up on this bid as I was told by several different people in Crew Resources that this was how it has "always been done."
I am glad the union followed up on this though, as I'm sure there are many other guys in the same boat.
No cover up here. No scheme being "marketed as a mistake."
administrative means; potentially timed and orchestrated by management to further reduce training costs (another post later on video professor).
Just my observation about this AE system. Everyone want's their seniority to qualify them to enter a base, but once established in a base they want something more than seniority to keep them there. Just an observation, not that I disagree.
09-15-2010, 07:56 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: DAL FO
Posts: 2,165
A great example and another sales pitch for a monthly bid. One receives a seat lock during the conversion window. Potentially, another AE posts towards the end of this freeze with a 9-month conversion window. If you are ineligible at the beginning of this freeze then your freeze would effectively carry on for another 9 months for a potential, 32 or so total months. Seniority is abrogated for the pilots after the 24 month freeze by
administrative means; potentially timed and orchestrated by management to further reduce training costs (another post later on video professor).
Just my observation about this AE system. Everyone want's their seniority to qualify them to enter a base, but once established in a base they want something more than seniority to keep them there. Just an observation, not that I disagree.
administrative means; potentially timed and orchestrated by management to further reduce training costs (another post later on video professor).
Just my observation about this AE system. Everyone want's their seniority to qualify them to enter a base, but once established in a base they want something more than seniority to keep them there. Just an observation, not that I disagree.
09-15-2010, 08:04 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
I think someone else already answered it, but yes you are able to enter AE preferences while on a freeze. You can even be awarded an AE, just not one that requires qualification training. This means you can change bases on your current equipment, just not be awarded different equipment. There are a few exceptions to this. One is being awarded your first captain seat while still on a freeze. In this case, they will just add your remaining freeze to your new 2 year freeze.
If someone told me I was frozen on the DC-9, I would still have Carl's -400 A seat bid in no matter what.
I think as a former North guy, because the "cards" ran every month on the 5th, I'm used to leaving my preferences in all year round. Is there a reason I shouldn't do that under the AE system?
09-15-2010, 08:11 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 710
I guess I"m just wondering why them telling people wrong information would affect what people were putting as their preferences? I guess I'm also wondering why people even asked.
If someone told me I was frozen on the DC-9, I would still have Carl's -400 A seat bid in no matter what.
I think as a former North guy, because the "cards" ran every month on the 5th, I'm used to leaving my preferences in all year round. Is there a reason I shouldn't do that under the AE system?
If someone told me I was frozen on the DC-9, I would still have Carl's -400 A seat bid in no matter what.
I think as a former North guy, because the "cards" ran every month on the 5th, I'm used to leaving my preferences in all year round. Is there a reason I shouldn't do that under the AE system?
09-15-2010, 08:15 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,412
A great example and another sales pitch for a monthly bid. One receives a seat lock during the conversion window. Potentially, another AE posts towards the end of this freeze with a 9-month conversion window. If you are ineligible at the beginning of this freeze then your freeze would effectively carry on for another 9 months for a potential, 32 or so total months. Seniority is abrogated for the pilots after the 24 month freeze by
administrative means; potentially timed and orchestrated by management to further reduce training costs (another post later on video professor).
Just my observation about this AE system. Everyone want's their seniority to qualify them to enter a base, but once established in a base they want something more than seniority to keep them there. Just an observation, not that I disagree.
administrative means; potentially timed and orchestrated by management to further reduce training costs (another post later on video professor).
Just my observation about this AE system. Everyone want's their seniority to qualify them to enter a base, but once established in a base they want something more than seniority to keep them there. Just an observation, not that I disagree.
09-15-2010, 08:26 AM
Senior by choice
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 426
I have used priceline and gotten the Hyatt Place Airport for $45 each time by choosing Atlanta Airport Area and 3 stars...much better than any of the VA Ave hotels!!
Good Luck!
09-15-2010, 08:26 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: LAX ERA
Posts: 3,457
I don't really have a dog in this fight anymore.........I'm kinda set unless something big happens, like a PHX base
09-15-2010, 08:28 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2010
Position: The New Delta
Posts: 115
I have never seen a year without at least 3 bids and 6 to 8 is more normal. NWA did have a monthly system however it carried with it a much longer freeze. I believe it was 3 years. I will take the current system with the shorter freeze. The situation you posted has not occurred in the last 10 years that I can recall. There is always another bid well before the end of a 9 month cycle. Often there are multiple bids.
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