Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
#4551
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,597
Once NWA switches to 1 for 3.5 you will no longer see many if any domestic 5 day trips. It becomes almost impossible for the company to avoid credit time when the trip exceeds 4 days. A typical 3 day trip actually is usually 48 to 50 hours TAFB. A 4 day trip is 72 to 74. A 5 day trip is 94 to 96 hours TAFB or almost double a 3 day trip so the credit really starts to kick in.
#4552
We had alot of 5 day trips on the 9 back before 9/11 when our rig was 1:3.5. They always went very senior because of the numbers of commuters.
#4553
Plus what about fuel prices finally getting lower by spring or summer?
#4554
I'd be surprised if they offer an early out on the FNWA side of things. We will be short before we will be over. Its the DAL side that has the "weight" issue, at least for now. Lets hope that the economy stabilizes and neither side get to heavy! We'll see
Last edited by Superpilot92; 01-31-2009 at 08:33 PM.
#4555
I agree Super, and its probably a "moo" point to wonder why they haven't furloughed because, well, they just haven't. Period. And if the bookings don't pick up they probably will.
I was just wondering how retirements might play into DAL's furlough thinking. It'd be one thing if DAL's side of the fence had the most senior pilots, but its the side thin on staffing with the most senior pilots.
This is what I'm thinking, we could still have a further SMALL fleet reduction and still not see furloughs pre SOC but at SOC we see furloughs without the economy getting any worse or any more fleet reductions.
I think this because right now I am hearing DAL is planning on surpluses at SOC despite NWA coming in "short". Could be bad sources though. And while they want to offer packages (to off load senior senior pilots) right now they obviously can't, the prime candidates are FNWA. So they have to wait to SOC to see what their staffing is, if its slightly over then see if packages can take care of it.
But why I think they won't furlough with a fleet reduction pre SOC is because it'd be on the DAL side to correct our supluses but what if at SOC you get a bunch of FNWA pilots retiring unexpectedly, then you are short on that side and you have to recall which would probably be before you hit your ROFI (return on furlough investment which we've heard is about 2 years). You're better off waiting till one list, offering packages, calculating and then reacting to your needs at that time than you are to furloughing now.
So, they wait.
And its hard to type when you're bouncing a newborn in your arms.
I was just wondering how retirements might play into DAL's furlough thinking. It'd be one thing if DAL's side of the fence had the most senior pilots, but its the side thin on staffing with the most senior pilots.
This is what I'm thinking, we could still have a further SMALL fleet reduction and still not see furloughs pre SOC but at SOC we see furloughs without the economy getting any worse or any more fleet reductions.
I think this because right now I am hearing DAL is planning on surpluses at SOC despite NWA coming in "short". Could be bad sources though. And while they want to offer packages (to off load senior senior pilots) right now they obviously can't, the prime candidates are FNWA. So they have to wait to SOC to see what their staffing is, if its slightly over then see if packages can take care of it.
But why I think they won't furlough with a fleet reduction pre SOC is because it'd be on the DAL side to correct our supluses but what if at SOC you get a bunch of FNWA pilots retiring unexpectedly, then you are short on that side and you have to recall which would probably be before you hit your ROFI (return on furlough investment which we've heard is about 2 years). You're better off waiting till one list, offering packages, calculating and then reacting to your needs at that time than you are to furloughing now.
So, they wait.
And its hard to type when you're bouncing a newborn in your arms.
Last edited by forgot to bid; 02-01-2009 at 06:42 AM.
#4556
I agree Super, and its probably a "moo" point to wonder why they haven't furloughed because, well, they just haven't. Period. And if the bookings don't pick up they probably will.
I was just wondering how retirements might play into DAL's furlough thinking. It'd be one thing if DAL's side of the fence had the most senior pilots, but its the side thin on staffing with the most senior pilots.
This is what I'm thinking, we could still have a further SMALL fleet reduction and still not see furloughs pre SOC but at SOC we see furloughs without the economy getting any worse or any more fleet reductions.
I think this because right now I am hearing DAL is planning on surpluses at SOC despite NWA coming in "short". Could be bad sources though. And while they want to offer packages (to off load senior senior pilots) right now they obviously can't, the prime candidates are FNWA. So they have to wait to SOC to see what their staffing is, if its slightly over then see if packages can take care of it.
But why I think they won't furlough with a fleet reduction pre SOC is because it'd be on the DAL side to correct our supluses but what if at SOC you get a bunch of FNWA pilots retiring unexpectedly, then you are short on that side and you have to recall which would probably be before you hit your ROFI (return on furlough investment which we've heard is about 2 years). You're better off waiting till one list, offering packages, calculating and then reacting then you are to furloughing now.
So, they wait.
And its hard to type when you're bouncing a newborn in your arms.
I was just wondering how retirements might play into DAL's furlough thinking. It'd be one thing if DAL's side of the fence had the most senior pilots, but its the side thin on staffing with the most senior pilots.
This is what I'm thinking, we could still have a further SMALL fleet reduction and still not see furloughs pre SOC but at SOC we see furloughs without the economy getting any worse or any more fleet reductions.
I think this because right now I am hearing DAL is planning on surpluses at SOC despite NWA coming in "short". Could be bad sources though. And while they want to offer packages (to off load senior senior pilots) right now they obviously can't, the prime candidates are FNWA. So they have to wait to SOC to see what their staffing is, if its slightly over then see if packages can take care of it.
But why I think they won't furlough with a fleet reduction pre SOC is because it'd be on the DAL side to correct our supluses but what if at SOC you get a bunch of FNWA pilots retiring unexpectedly, then you are short on that side and you have to recall which would probably be before you hit your ROFI (return on furlough investment which we've heard is about 2 years). You're better off waiting till one list, offering packages, calculating and then reacting then you are to furloughing now.
So, they wait.
And its hard to type when you're bouncing a newborn in your arms.
You have a fairly good grasp of what the issues are surrounding this issue.
#4557
I agree Super, and its probably a "moo" point to wonder why they haven't furloughed because, well, they just haven't. Period. And if the bookings don't pick up they probably will.
I was just wondering how retirements might play into DAL's furlough thinking. It'd be one thing if DAL's side of the fence had the most senior pilots, but its the side thin on staffing with the most senior pilots.
This is what I'm thinking, we could still have a further SMALL fleet reduction and still not see furloughs pre SOC but at SOC we see furloughs without the economy getting any worse or any more fleet reductions.
I think this because right now I am hearing DAL is planning on surpluses at SOC despite NWA coming in "short". Could be bad sources though. And while they want to offer packages (to off load senior senior pilots) right now they obviously can't, the prime candidates are FNWA. So they have to wait to SOC to see what their staffing is, if its slightly over then see if packages can take care of it.
But why I think they won't furlough with a fleet reduction pre SOC is because it'd be on the DAL side to correct our supluses but what if at SOC you get a bunch of FNWA pilots retiring unexpectedly, then you are short on that side and you have to recall which would probably be before you hit your ROFI (return on furlough investment which we've heard is about 2 years). You're better off waiting till one list, offering packages, calculating and then reacting to your needs at that time than you are to furloughing now.
So, they wait.
And its hard to type when you're bouncing a newborn in your arms.
I was just wondering how retirements might play into DAL's furlough thinking. It'd be one thing if DAL's side of the fence had the most senior pilots, but its the side thin on staffing with the most senior pilots.
This is what I'm thinking, we could still have a further SMALL fleet reduction and still not see furloughs pre SOC but at SOC we see furloughs without the economy getting any worse or any more fleet reductions.
I think this because right now I am hearing DAL is planning on surpluses at SOC despite NWA coming in "short". Could be bad sources though. And while they want to offer packages (to off load senior senior pilots) right now they obviously can't, the prime candidates are FNWA. So they have to wait to SOC to see what their staffing is, if its slightly over then see if packages can take care of it.
But why I think they won't furlough with a fleet reduction pre SOC is because it'd be on the DAL side to correct our supluses but what if at SOC you get a bunch of FNWA pilots retiring unexpectedly, then you are short on that side and you have to recall which would probably be before you hit your ROFI (return on furlough investment which we've heard is about 2 years). You're better off waiting till one list, offering packages, calculating and then reacting to your needs at that time than you are to furloughing now.
So, they wait.
And its hard to type when you're bouncing a newborn in your arms.
#4558
yes, but you do not have to recall FDL or FNWA guys that were furloughed prior to SOC until there is a need. Even if it is out of order.
My understanding is that is how it is legally looked at.
My understanding is that is how it is legally looked at.
#4559
That could be a real saving grace to some who might otherwise be getting the door. It will be very interesting to see how this is played out.
#4560
That it will. It is part but not all of the reason that even though we are overstaffed we have not done anything about it.
One of the other aspects is that we will have a lot of training that will need to be done in the next two to three years.
One of the other aspects is that we will have a lot of training that will need to be done in the next two to three years.
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