sailingfun

Not sure what you are asking? The original city that the company wanted to fly the 700 into was Manaus. It is at 3.06 south. The rule was changed so that flights could go to 3.30 south as long as flight time was under 8 hours and not be considered a ocean crossing. Ocean crossing flights required a longer layover that would not fit with the schedule planned for the aircraft.

CVG767A

Frank Lorenzo did that to the Continental guys with their bankruptcy in the early 80's, too. They're now back to a system similar to ours. Any CAL guys out there care to chime in?

sailingfun

I think Lorenzo paid one salary for CA and one for FO. Did not matter what aircraft. That has since evolved to 3 different categories if I recall.

One thing to keep in mind is that with a one pay fits all system LOS pay is normally moved to 25 or 30 years max. Quite different from the 12 years we have now. In addition you lose the ability to generate pay raises via new equipment. Part of this thread is about the 737-800 paying more then the Maddog. The reason is we were able to get higher rates because of the greater efficiencies of the airframe. Lots of new aircraft types will be coming online in the next 30 years.It would be a major mistake to give that up.

RiddleEagle18

Your right I should have been more specific. I worked at comair and flew with plenty of CVG lifers who told me straight up the only way they were going to make more money was to get larger a/c.

The decisions of this part of the pilot group was one of the reasons I chose to stay at compass instead of taking recall at comair.

The junior part of the comair list is very different and sees scope erosion as a detriment to thier careers.

Sink r8

If you look at the evolution of aviation from its' infancy, the trend has always been towards larger aircraft (on average). It only makes sense that, as populations grow, any given route could be economically served by larger and larger aircraft. Of course we had the distasteful attempt to fight evolution with the 50-seat RJ, but believing in those was really more of an act of misplaced faith than anything else... which almost killed our airline.

Now that a modicum of sanity and intelligence has returned to our fleet planning, we're going back to larger, more efficient airplanes (imagine that). So I agree with sailing: we need to keep the pay structure that lets us capitalize on size.

beer

ASA Buying ExpressJet? WoW!!!!

KC10 FATboy

Beer, do you have a link or reference?

KC10 FATboy

Then we put into the contract that anytime a new aircraft comes onto property, the rates are amendable.

Also, I don't understand the part about the 737-800 getting higher rates because they are more efficient than the Maddogs. Recently, the company has stated in several sources that the MD-90s are the most fuel efficient aircraft we have. Perhaps overall costs are higher, who knows?

acl65pilot

Funny thing is that it is not a hit for one part of the list or another. It just take the static percentage bumps that we negotiate ( 5,4,4,4) and p lowers them to a 2-4% bump per year that a PWA is non-amendable and adds a COLA on top of it.

It sounds very scary to some that they do not know the exact percentage they will get each year, but one must remember that your buying power, which is really what matters, stays constant. That is what matters. If I had the time I would look at the PWA's from the 80's forward. Everyone benchmarks C2K but you need to realize that it was a home run that really was making up for previous prolonged section six negotiations.

Even in the last downturn COLA was Zero. We have not had deflation for a very long time. Government will do anything they can to keep inflation positive. (Makes paying back the debt easier since today's dollars are worth less than last years)

I admit it is a change in thinking, but it is one that keeps each position at the same buying power Y-O-Y with a rational few percentage points like we are seeing now. Putting a COLA rider after the amendable date takes many of the advantage away from the company for prolonged section six talks. It also take the Associations constant need for large gains and rationalizes them. In plain English, it means the members are able to buy the same stuff year over year, so there is less pressure on the administration to keep kitting those long balls.

Just a though that I have put much though in to.

acl65pilot

Frankly, that could be said for any Regional carrier. Lifers want more money and opportunities. Their interests diverge from that of the guys that want jobs at the mainline to move on.