Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
08-02-2010, 09:25 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,324
Heyas,
ACL is right. The ONLY reason we didn't furlough is the flow down provision. It was a complete logistical and financial sinkhole for the company.
No furlough clauses in the contract means absolutely nothing. Not even good to wipe your tail with. The flow down imposed a SERIOUS financial penalty to the airline. THAT you can take to the bank.
Now, whether you agree with the concept of flow down or not, or whether you think we have some moral obligation to the CPZ or MSA pilots on the respective properties that went there on the promise of a flow. Irrelevant to the big discussion.
That discussion is this: The flow down is rock solid furlough protection...proven not only at pre-merger NWA, but at the combined NWA/DAL. Tens, if not hundreds of DAL pilots owe their employment to this.
Management wants to get rid of this. There are some among us who would be happy for management to get rid of it with a stoke of their pen in order to stroke their "Delta hires Delta pilots" ego. Others would waive it away simply because, well, the company asked.
But consider the financial impact that this has had for the pilots, and the protection it serves. The process for getting rid of the flow is in black and while. 1 B 40 e. Pull the seats.
Now, consider the financial impact to the company, and the PERSONAL cost to those pilots who would have most certainly been furloughed. NOT to mention the fiscal givebacks and sacrifice the fNWA pilots gave to put that language in the contract in the first place.
Are you REALLY telling me you want to walk away from that?
Ask yourself: What do you want? Rock solid furlough protection? 68 fewer 76 seat RJs? Replacement 100 seaters on the property? A %20 pay raise?
I don't care what you ask for (well, I do, but it's your call), but for God's sake, ask for something worth what we are giving up.
Nu
ACL is right. The ONLY reason we didn't furlough is the flow down provision. It was a complete logistical and financial sinkhole for the company.
No furlough clauses in the contract means absolutely nothing. Not even good to wipe your tail with. The flow down imposed a SERIOUS financial penalty to the airline. THAT you can take to the bank.
Now, whether you agree with the concept of flow down or not, or whether you think we have some moral obligation to the CPZ or MSA pilots on the respective properties that went there on the promise of a flow. Irrelevant to the big discussion.
That discussion is this: The flow down is rock solid furlough protection...proven not only at pre-merger NWA, but at the combined NWA/DAL. Tens, if not hundreds of DAL pilots owe their employment to this.
Management wants to get rid of this. There are some among us who would be happy for management to get rid of it with a stoke of their pen in order to stroke their "Delta hires Delta pilots" ego. Others would waive it away simply because, well, the company asked.
But consider the financial impact that this has had for the pilots, and the protection it serves. The process for getting rid of the flow is in black and while. 1 B 40 e. Pull the seats.
Now, consider the financial impact to the company, and the PERSONAL cost to those pilots who would have most certainly been furloughed. NOT to mention the fiscal givebacks and sacrifice the fNWA pilots gave to put that language in the contract in the first place.
Are you REALLY telling me you want to walk away from that?
Ask yourself: What do you want? Rock solid furlough protection? 68 fewer 76 seat RJs? Replacement 100 seaters on the property? A %20 pay raise?
I don't care what you ask for (well, I do, but it's your call), but for God's sake, ask for something worth what we are giving up.
Nu
Bottom line, if the company wants the flows gone, we should be asking why. I'm willing to bet it's not to protect the integrity of the Delta hiring process.
As it stands right now, I can't see their play. I can tell you it does not pass the sniff test. Something is rotten in Denmark.
I vote to keep the flows.
08-02-2010, 10:10 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Cheers! Could not have said it better.
Bottom line, if the company wants the flows gone, we should be asking why. I'm willing to bet it's not to protect the integrity of the Delta hiring process.
As it stands right now, I can't see their play. I can tell you it does not pass the sniff test. Something is rotten in Denmark.
I vote to keep the flows.
Bottom line, if the company wants the flows gone, we should be asking why. I'm willing to bet it's not to protect the integrity of the Delta hiring process.
As it stands right now, I can't see their play. I can tell you it does not pass the sniff test. Something is rotten in Denmark.
I vote to keep the flows.
Tell your reps - I agree with you.
Nu nice explanation.
Holy Crap! I have more than 300 posts. I need to get a life!
08-02-2010, 10:34 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 737A
Posts: 1,890
Cheers! Could not have said it better.
Bottom line, if the company wants the flows gone, we should be asking why. I'm willing to bet it's not to protect the integrity of the Delta hiring process.
As it stands right now, I can't see their play. I can tell you it does not pass the sniff test. Something is rotten in Denmark.
I vote to keep the flows.
Bottom line, if the company wants the flows gone, we should be asking why. I'm willing to bet it's not to protect the integrity of the Delta hiring process.
As it stands right now, I can't see their play. I can tell you it does not pass the sniff test. Something is rotten in Denmark.
I vote to keep the flows.
08-02-2010, 10:35 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Funny, council 44 (ATL) has a nice pic of a A330 blasting off on the recent edition of Roar 44. The 330 being a plane not based here. Are they saying something? Is this like the humping lizards?
I
I
08-02-2010, 11:21 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
I think the play is pretty clear. A year ago we were all happy we had the compass flow down because it was supposedly helping prevent furloughs. Now we have guys acting like we'll never furlough again. Delta is looking down the road and trying to eliminate that added furlough cost. Not saying that furloughs are coming anytime soon, but it is most likely inevitable that it will happen again someday. I think they are just thinking ahead of us, again.
08-02-2010, 11:23 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,899
I think the play is pretty clear. A year ago we were all happy we had the compass flow down because it was supposedly helping prevent furloughs. Now we have guys acting like we'll never furlough again. Delta is looking down the road and trying to eliminate that added furlough cost. Not saying that furloughs are coming anytime soon, but it is most likely inevitable that it will happen again someday. I think they are just thinking ahead of us, again.
Another question we need to ask is WHY some are willing to give it away this protection.
Nu
08-02-2010, 11:55 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,574
With Compass sold the flow agreement if if it remains in force per the current agreement offers no economic penalty to the company in the event of a furlough. Any financial penalty would go to the new owners of Compass. Compass was simply another category when it came to a furlough cost item. Selling Compass shifts all the burden to the purchaser and removes it from Delta.
08-02-2010, 01:02 PM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
With Compass sold the flow agreement if if it remains in force per the current agreement offers no economic penalty to the company in the event of a furlough. Any financial penalty would go to the new owners of Compass. Compass was simply another category when it came to a furlough cost item. Selling Compass shifts all the burden to the purchaser and removes it from Delta.
Are you sure about that? Have you read the purchase agreement?
08-02-2010, 01:04 PM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
More importantly Nu, why is DAL engaging us on a flow down they will not use, unless a buyer sees it as language that supersedes DCI flying?
08-02-2010, 01:53 PM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
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