johnso29

The flow is not new, it has been in place for a while. It is simply being extended while the mess of being sold to Pinnacle is sorted out. The sale of Compass & Mesaba reaches deep into our contract, & is quite complicated.

I want a flow in place because it is another layer of furlough protection.

RiddleEagle18

They are also looking to sunset them so you wont have to deal with it too much longer.

I think your looking at these flows all wrong. They were a benefit to your pilot group over the last couple years as a huge deterrent to not furlough. That benefit may be gone now as delta will not have to shoulder the cost but it did exist last year.

Dont forget the value of keeping our pilot groups interest aligned as well.(Something ALPA has been looking for) What benefits the delta pilot group ultimatley benefits the compass group. Think help in holding the line on scope. When there was breifly rumors about delta ordering 190's and putting them on the compass certificate I can assure you I never met 1 compass pilot who was excited about it. Now can you say the same for say the comair group?

That is exactly the attitude that allowed these "small jets" to be outsourced in the first place. Some of your pilot group already decided to flow down to compass. It was most definatley an advantage to these guys and Im sure if the situation ever arose again there would be guys who would take the job at compass again. Maybe not you but if delta ever furloughed a couple hundred guys im sure every captain position at compass would be filled by a delta furloughee.

acl65pilot

Well reread that little e-mail you were just sent. They stated that the "Company" wanted to sunset the flows, and given the "Exceptions" that they describe and define in that letter, the companies desire and our PWA language equates to some leverage.

I am impressed that they were this forthright with the companies position.

Flows are an interesting animal. The benefit to a mainline pilot is flow down protection.

Whether you like em or not, it is part of your contract. If you like direct your reps to sunset them and get nothing in return for them. ( I say this TIC. In reality you need to talk to you reps)

Launchpad475

Wow. 9/11 wasn't that long ago for some...

KC10 FATboy

The LOA sets up a temporary flow until September. I assume that is to offer the chance to flow to anyone who would be eligible to flow. I feel we owe it to those folks who were at these carriers when those agreements were in place.

However, going forward, I do not want a flow. It isn't anything against the carriers involved. I just want Delta to have a say in who Delta hires. I don't want any other carrier doing our hiring.

Lastly, to the individuals who said this may have prevented furloughs and is furlough protection going forward. You may be correct. I myself was sure that I was going to be furloughed during this downturn. In fact, I still expect it (yeah, I'm a Debbie Downer). However, I want the flying back at mainline. I don't want a subcontractor doing our flying. As someone who would be immediately furloughed if anything were to happen, I say, get rid of the flow through agreements and end the nonsense that is subcontracting our flying out.

Any legislation or politician that puts forth an effort to reducing the flying at the DCI, I'm all for it. Keep Delta My Delta. (Seriously, I hate that phrase).

iceman49

[quote=Xray678;848957]I agree with you. But you can go too far. You can over checklist something. You can make procedures so safe that the operation cannot function. An example is the now adopted NWA procedure of having to autoland a CAT II landing. So now if a Delta airplane is not autoland capable, we have to divert? While a 27 year old kid who has been in the left seat of an RJ for 3 months can come on in and land? Are our pilots incapable of hand flying a landing in CAT II conditions?

You have to look at it from a different perspective. How often do you dispatch with an item that prevents a CATII landing; if you do what is the wx at your destination. Mx, dispatch and planning work together...they would either fix the problem or swap aircraft...not a big deal. If the component failed in flight, different story so you divert. I think modern mx history has changed the equation. Why do you think we went from AP not required for Non-prec (non-ILS) approachs...because historically we couldn't justify non AP non prec/non ils approaches.

.

Superdad

Guys, let's not lose sight of reality. The company has stated that they would like to "sunset the flows." Translation, the flows will be gone. Now, we have some leverage here so all that matters is what we get for them.

Whether you want the flow or not, the company does not want them and I imagine they are willing to pay enough to get rid if them.

Sink r8

Now that is funny!

sinca3

I was wondering the same thing! If i remember correctly they find out the aircraft on day on or two. The short bus seems veryv very short bodies so i would think there would be seats available. I thought there had to be an AE before newhires get their choice of equipment.

Dirty

Dude are you serious? I have the reserves to fall back on and I see great value in these flow through agreements... although I do see greater value in parking RJ's... that ain't happening. I'm with superdad... we should extract whatever value we can out of this.