Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
07-04-2010, 09:58 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,906
If the company didn't realize what was in their contract, and now they have to figure out how to fix it, that is THEIR problem. Lack of planning on their part does NOT constitute an emergency on our part.
If they want to fly the jets, fine. We have pay rates all set to go. WE planned for it, and we're all set.
Besides. They don't have to park the jets. Just pull 6 seats out of each, and have then count towards the 255 versus the 153.
There are quite a few DC-9-30s in the desert with good cycles left. Fully paid with a training program and sim capacity in excess. They could EASILY surge the -9 to make up the difference, and it would be with our own pilots. Any other solution that doesn't involve DAL pilots, and we can simply say "a contract is a contract"....hmmm, where have I heard that before?
Nu
07-04-2010, 10:32 AM
Get's Every Day Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Retired
Posts: 1,860
They can start
Thanks for the thoughtful response. I see what you mean but do we have the capability to surge the 320 fleet to cover that flying? Aren't we stretched pretty thin already in that fleet. At least that is what I gather from guys posting here. As for the 9s, same story is it not? Besides what is the casm difference between the block 30s and 40s and the Ejet? ACL would know.
I would love to see mainline jets fly those routes and pax. I just don't think we have the ability to do it very short notice. As for us flying the 170, not a bad idea. We have pay rates published but the training costs would be a bundle and the time to spin us up.
I'm not advocating any position here, just trying to get some rational thinking going. Scope is a very emotional issue, for me as well as most every one here. Emotions as strong as that tend to cloud ones thinking. We need to let our leaders know what is unacceptable but trust them to do the right thing, for ourselves and the company, because our destinies are tied together.
I would love to see mainline jets fly those routes and pax. I just don't think we have the ability to do it very short notice. As for us flying the 170, not a bad idea. We have pay rates published but the training costs would be a bundle and the time to spin us up.
I'm not advocating any position here, just trying to get some rational thinking going. Scope is a very emotional issue, for me as well as most every one here. Emotions as strong as that tend to cloud ones thinking. We need to let our leaders know what is unacceptable but trust them to do the right thing, for ourselves and the company, because our destinies are tied together.
07-04-2010, 10:59 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 737A
Posts: 1,890
I'd say if they want to get out of parking those jets then we need to open up section 6 negotiations immediately. No more loas, renegotiate the whole Pwa.
07-04-2010, 11:21 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,028
Ah, but there is the rub. If the company has to reduce the number of 76'ers to 85, that is a lot of lift taken out of the system. That is a lot of revenue lost and that equals less money for us too. Especially going into sec 6 negotiations, a profitable company is important to us.
I'm not advocating we roll over, not in the least. Just pointing out the Law of Unintended Consequences. How would we replace that lift? Do we have enough mainline lift to fill in? Or would those routes go to other DCI carriers? It's something we will have to think through, not make a knee jerk reaction, in either direction.
My guess is if it came down to it, the company would ignore the provision, make us grieve it, and use the time to come up with a solution. In fact, that may be the best course of action. Can you say MD90s?
I'm not advocating we roll over, not in the least. Just pointing out the Law of Unintended Consequences. How would we replace that lift? Do we have enough mainline lift to fill in? Or would those routes go to other DCI carriers? It's something we will have to think through, not make a knee jerk reaction, in either direction.
My guess is if it came down to it, the company would ignore the provision, make us grieve it, and use the time to come up with a solution. In fact, that may be the best course of action. Can you say MD90s?
07-04-2010, 11:33 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 119
Jobs
As a Delta pilot I want to see more Delta pilots. As an ALPA member, I want to see ALPA members taken care of.
Give at least the current Compass & Mesaba pilots Delta ratio seniority numbers at the bottom of the list. That fixes the issue of the future flow (by killing it for future hires) and fixes the issue of promises made to the current pilots.
Numbers also protect current Delta pilots.
Unity also protects management by redistributing longevity costs. If the Compass / Mesaba guys don't want the deal, they can opt out.
If Delta pilots could flow down off certificate, there is no reason why our former partners in this flow agreement can not enjoy flowing up across certificates.
07-04-2010, 12:01 PM
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Joined APC: Apr 2005
Position: 767ER capt
Posts: 1,190
Between the loss of our pensions, and the looming changes to duty time limitations (which will disproportionately affect the regionals), are we still that much more expensive than regional pilots? I'll bet the difference is considerably narrower than when management used to say that as a justification for outsourcing.
07-04-2010, 12:23 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 119
Also, I do not care who maintains the jet, and or holds the lean against their balance sheet. We can fly them and pay a service fee to TSH for dry leasing the jet. DAL wants is off their balance sheet, great, that does not preclude delta pilots from flying it.
Think outside the traditional box.
Think outside the traditional box.
07-04-2010, 12:32 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2010
Position: Boeing Boss
Posts: 335
Nu, you have an easy solution. It's not an easy problem. Your easy solution has too many assumptions.
07-04-2010, 12:39 PM
seeing the large hubs...
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: 73N A
Posts: 3,758
Yes, they do. But the wheel turns both way - Delta had ways of convincing Delta pilots to relax scope - I'm sure other airline management can figure it out too.
Say Delta (the company) went to a regional, say, ExpressJet (just using an example that doesn't include current DCI airlines) and said: we'll pay you $50 million a year to maintain, dispatch, and staff with FAs a set of RJs. We'll sell the tickets, buy the fuel and provide the pilots. Why would ExpressJet turn that down?
It's not up to me to sell that to the ExpressJet pilots. The ExpressJet management can decide what they want to say to their pilots. It can be a "well, here's a separate airline, doesn't involve existing ExpressJet aircraft, ala GoJets" or it could be "well, we'll give everyone a 10% raise if we let this new Delta regional startup without problems".
Say Delta (the company) went to a regional, say, ExpressJet (just using an example that doesn't include current DCI airlines) and said: we'll pay you $50 million a year to maintain, dispatch, and staff with FAs a set of RJs. We'll sell the tickets, buy the fuel and provide the pilots. Why would ExpressJet turn that down?
It's not up to me to sell that to the ExpressJet pilots. The ExpressJet management can decide what they want to say to their pilots. It can be a "well, here's a separate airline, doesn't involve existing ExpressJet aircraft, ala GoJets" or it could be "well, we'll give everyone a 10% raise if we let this new Delta regional startup without problems".
07-04-2010, 01:03 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,906
I seem to remember the company signed the contract as well, and it has "Agreement" written on the front, not "suggestions".
If they pooched it up, they can fix it without any more concessions on our part. That is part and parcel of the price tag that I and so many others gave up to ensure. I live up to my end of the bargain every day. I make the assumption that when they signed the contract, that they intend to as well.
Want to bring some aircraft on the property? No problemo, we'll work with you night and day. Some of the aircraft we already have pay rates for, but if you have one you'd like us to fly, let's sit down and we'll work something out. Need a little flex in the other fleets while we spool one up? I'm sure we have guys that wouldn't mind to fly a bit more.
Want us to invalidate the concessions we took to get the protection we DO have so you an get another pilot group to take over our flying, and smile while we do it? Go **** up a rope. Don't even ask. If fact, you've worn out your welcome for even asking. Go away and we'll see you in 2012.
Anything else on our part is playing the sucker.
Nu
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