Elliot

SIC only. The way I understand it, none of the "French equipment" offer type ratings through training. (i.e. 319/320, 330) Unless that has recently changed with Delta.

GJ

Ferd149

T......yup, I think I really like your hybrid here as I agree. First time I did the breaks y'alls way was my first trip over to CDG. The Capt was the MSP Chief Pilot, the IP was the MSP head LCA, me and a very very sharp relief guy out of ATL.

Anyway, I looked at him and said "I've never been to CDG and want to be in the seat for landing" (hinting to relax I'd take first break) and headed out the door for the walk around. His look of utter confusion was classic, so we all chatted a bit on "how do you do it"? Since we were all north guys wanting to do "try it you'll like it" we did it the south way. Six of one, half dozen of the other was my impression...........until we did it the south way coming home. My TO and landing with second break was much better for the landing, I was sold.

So, I see your point too because the relief pilots I've flown with (especially in Asia) are on long trips as only the RP and unless they speak up aren't gong to get a TO or landing in this system.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong
Ferd

PS........why we wouldn't just let the whale guys do it like THEY (the user) want to is beyond me. But, again just my opinion.

maddogmax

Don't think the 319/320 guys get a type since they are never in the left seat. The A330 fo's get a full type rating.

johnso29

No, we aren't typed. But 73N FO's get a full type. DAL typed all FO's except Maddog FO's. NWA recently only typed FO's who would be needed for cruise CA's.

johnso29

Looks like Alaska will be serving multiple cities out of STL soon. Guess that'll be another way to get people to ANC/PDX/etc on someone other then DAL.

Rudder

I think this whole discussion about the South versus North way of doing breaks is ridiculous and is probably being brought on by LCA's briefing their "techniques" as procedure. I have pegged them on this many times in the past and everyone needs to take a breather and separate written procedures from someone's techniques.

When I was on the ER out of NYC, the pilot flying got his choice of breaks, usually took the middle one but not always. Some of the longer flights we adjusted rest times as the situation dictated to reflect the needs of the crew, I would expect everyone here to do the same. The last time I checked the Captain runs the airplane, not some LCA back in Atlanta.

Some food for thought for the north guys. Some of the FO patterns we used to fly out of NYC had you flying with Atlanta guys half of the trip. While the subject of currency always came up when I was flying with NYC crews, the subject was NEVER spoken of with the Atlanta crews, as I was ALWAYS assigned the relief position without any interest in my currency needs. When I asked the crews about this, I got so many blank stares I quit asking and just went for beers by myself. Do not know if that has changed lately as I have not been there for awhile, hope it has.

Getting back to the rest breaks, I believe any Captain should utilize his crew the safest way he knows of given the needs of his crew, PERIOD!

Roadie85

johnso29Looks like Alaska will be serving multiple cities out of STL soon. Guess that'll be another way to get people to ANC/PDX/etc on someone other then DAL.

I see Alaska Airlines everywhere. Pushing out of a Delta gate in Boston last week, made me feel like they are the new RJ problem. Someone other than Delta pilots doing Delta flying..

Nosmo King

This is incomplete info. The fences came down, but will not be the sole factor in realigning of wide body positions, less so on the 330 since its not fenced.

The JPWA also had a huge effect in two ways. First, as already mentioned, no differentiation between block and reserve. Green book guys started bidding reserve on the 330 just prior to JPWA changeover because they knew they would immediately shoot to the top of the list after PWA changeover to single categories.

Second, Recall rights. This has a huge effect on Red Book 747 guys. At fNW your recall rights were good FOREVER, unless you were awarded a position HIGHER on your APA(AE) card than the position you were displaced from. The effect of this is, if there is a NEW position created in a category, then its awarded by seniority no change from Post Roberts). If a vacancy was created in a previously staffed position, then recall rights trumped seniority After we moved to the JPWA recall rights were only good for 6 months and that will change the balance even faster as 2010 progresses.

I guess I would agree with you if you consider permanent recall rights to be an artificial fence.

Nosmo King

fNW each pilots TO and landing currency was printed at the top of the paperwork. Made it hard to deny knowledge of any currency requirements.
OTOH we had a few guys that liked getting an extra day of pay every 3 months...

Dash8widget

While I agree with you, BOS is probably not a good example. AS has been flying out of BOS since AA pulled out of BOS-SEA years ago. AS has been flying BOS-SEA and BOS-PDX since well before the code share agreement with DL. On the other hand - I heard that DL announced pulling out of PDX-HNL. A few days later, AS announced new service on that route. Not good.